The Federal Opposition has a new law team under the leadership of Sussan Ley, following a gigantic loss at this year’s election, and also a temporary split between the Liberals and the Nationals. One of the areas that they’re hoping to win people back in is some support around Immigration. The new Shadow Immigration Minister is is good enough to join us. He’s also the Shadow Minister for Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs Queensland Senator, Paul Scarr, Senator, it’s good to meet you.
Senator Scarr
Good to be with you. Justin. Good to be with your listeners. And I’ve been listening very carefully to what they’ve had to say this morning.
Justin Smtih
Welcome to Melbourne. [host interrupted]
Justin Smtih
Got any thoughts on McDonald’s in Northcote?
Senator Scarr
Well, Im actually doing my best to eat less McDonald’s, I must say. But I’ve been very interested in the thoughts of your listeners.
Justin Smtih
Yeah, absolutely. I wanted to start, if you don’t mind, with you were at the East Melbourne Synagogue yesterday with Sussan Ley What did you feel when you were there?
Senator Scarr
I felt a lot of sadness Justin. It was very moving to speak with members of the congregation about how they feel about the attack that occurred on Friday night in particular, listening to the perspective of people as parents who are really concerned about the safety of their children, have fear about the environment in which their children are growing up. So when you hear parents say what it feels like to drop their children off at kindergartens and schools where there are armed security guards, and this is in Australia, Justin, when you hear from parents who talk about what it’s like to have their children have not just fire drills, but lockdown drills to prepare in the event that there’s a violent intruder in their school or kindergarten. And then, when you consider that these parents are having to pay across country, in across the country, in aggregate, millions of dollars for security levies. We expect parents at our schools to pay tuck shop levies or excursion levies or sporting levies, but these families are paying security levies, and I think that’s something we need to all reflect on.
Justin Smtih
What do we need to change? The Premier has announced a task force, a new task force. Do you support that task force?
Senator Scarr
I think we really need a national approach to this in terms of how we address this. And it’s a scourge, this scourge of anti semitism, which is tearing at our social fabric. The Executive Council of Australian jury released a 15 point Action Plan following their summit into anti semitism, which occurred in Sydney. And I think the government needs to seriously reflect on each of those 15 action points. One of those action points dealt with education, and I think education is incredibly important because a lot of those in some cases centuries old, antisemitic tropes, conspiracy theories we’re seeing on the streets of our cities, on placards and signs. So educationis an important part of it. There’s also [host interrupted]
Justin Smtih
How does that fold into and of course, we can’t mention any anything that is currently before the courts, but scenes that we have seen play out over the last 18 months or so is, how does education tackle something like that? How does education tackle hatred?
Senator Scarr
Well, let me give you one example. A lot of the placards, some of the placards you see, some of the rhetoric around this issue talks about how the Jewish people control in some way, the media companies, political organizations. Now that’s a, that’s a, that’s a conspiracy theory, which goes back, in some cases, hundreds of years. You go back to the turn of the of the 20th century, in the early 1900s The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which was a fabricated document. Some of these. Some of these anti semitic tropes have a long history, and that history needs to be explained. The meaning of these tropes. Who was promoting them to give people a deeper understanding of what we’re talking about here in terms of anti semitism, and I think that is incredibly important, that education is incredibly important, but also for our law enforcement officers to understand the meaning of some of these chants in that context, what’s on placards, etc, so that they can, so that they can actually enforce the laws. And we’ve toughened the laws recently in the Australian Federal Parliament as recently as February. So I think there’s a whole raft of things. And I come back to the 15 point strategy plan that the Executive Council of Australian Jewry put out.
Justin Smtih
What would your policy be? What would the policy of the coalition be? The Federal coalition be around anti semitism?
Senator Scarr
I think there’s a raft of elements in that 15 point policy which we can pick up, and that includes national leadership in relation to addressing what we’re seeing across the whole country, and that includes, in my home state of Queensland, it includes making reforms with respect to our education process and making sure students, etc, are educated [host interrupted]
Justin Smtih
Respectfully, Senator, what does that mean though? What would you what would you tackle? If you know you’re you’re hoping to win back government here, what are you going to change to to fight anti semitism?
Justin Smtih
Okay. So you still yet to do some some work on that, to put policy together.
Senator Scarr
So our students are educated with respect to the meaning of anti semitism. What constitutes anti semitism? The Coalition has called for a judicial inquiry in relation to anti semitism on our universities, I sat on the legal and constitutional committee which took evidence from hundreds and hundreds of members of our Australian Jewish community and told their real stories in terms of their experiences on university campuses. Absolutely unacceptable, absolutely unacceptable. So there needs to be change there. There needs to be guidelines with respect to policing so that our law enforcement officers are given the opportunity to have a better understanding as to what constitutes anti semitism and its manifestations. We’re seeing changes in relation to chants that are used, and I think there needs to be a national approach with respect to how those chants are interpreted, and in some cases where they cross the boundary and are unlawful, to make sure action is taken as soon as possible.
Senator Scarr
Well again, I come back to those 15 points in the Executive Council of Australian Jewry action plan. It includes things like in relation to our immigration laws, making sure that people who commit acts of anti semitism will fail the character test under our immigration act. So that’s a whole raft. [host interrupted]
Justin Smtih
So if someone you know under what you would hope to change, if someone chants at a protest, and it is something political and it’s it’s something that you’re trying to stamp out, what would you be able to do about that?
Senator Scarr
Well, if it breaches the law, the law needs to be enforced. The law needs to be enforced and law enforcement officers across the country need to have the opportunity to have national guidelines to consider, to inform them as to when that boundary is crossed.
Justin Smtih
And how is that different to what we’ve got now?
Senator Scarr
Well, at the moment, we are seeing chants which, in my view, cross the line, and we’re not seeing appropriate action occurring in response to those chants. And I think that is something which needs to be considered very, very carefully.
Justin Smtih
Moving on to Immigration. In the last election campaign, did you get immigration wrong?
Senator Scarr
We’re going through the process Justin of looking at all of our policies. And Immigration is an area where we are reviewing the policies we took to the last election. And bear in mind that the some of the policies we took to the last election were looking at things like immigration numbers over the next three years, and we’ll be preparing a policy to take to the 2028 Election. So in formulating that policy, we need to get the best available evidence, and we also need to get the tone right when we’re discussing these. [host interrupted]
Justin Smtih
Did you have the tone wrong?
Senator Scarr
I think there are opportunities for us to do this better. I think there are opportunities for us to do this better. And it’s something it’s also Justin, it’s something I feel very passionately about, because I’m very close to many of our wonderful Multicultural Communities in Queensland. And during the last two days in Victoria, I’ve been meeting members of the community here in Melbourne, which is a wonderful multicultural city.
Justin Smtih
So what would you like to change? What would you what do you want people to know about the Coalition andI know you don’t have it down in black and white yet, but what do you want people to know about the Coalition and Immigration?
Senator Scarr
Well, Justin, I don’t need to have in black and white the fact that the Coalition values, and I value the contribution which is made by so many people who’ve come to this country from overseas, that those people belong in our country, that they’re part of the Australian Story.
Justin Smtih
There was a fear that those people had a had a fear that they weren’t valued by the coalition. Would you concede that?
Senator Scarr
We can do a better job of making sure members of our. Multicultural Communities know that they are valued, and that in many cases, the values of the Liberal Party align with their values in terms of our commitment to freedom of the individual, reward for effort and for having a society where everyone is free to live in peace and harmony. Whatever their background, whatever their faith.
Justin Smtih
Is the Coalition content with the current immigration level, or does it need to be cut?
Senator Scarr
Again, we prepare policies for the last election, which we’re looking forward to the next three years. We need to prepare a policy for the 2028 election, and we need to consider the best available evidence at that point in time, and when you consider. [host interrupted]
Justin Smtih
I’m sorry, just before we move on from that, what is the level at the moment? Are you Is it too high or too low, as far as the Coalition is concerned?
Senator Scarr
Well, again, it’s a question from my perspective of going out, getting the best available evidence at this point intime, speaking to the experts, speaking to all the stakeholders, and that includes business in relation to skills shortages across our community. It means talking to housing experts. It means talking to organizations like the Scanlon Foundation, who I’m going to see today, who have done very important work.
Justin Smtih
And I understand and forgive me for pinning you, trying to pin you down on this answer, because I think it’s important. There was an enormous loss from the Coalition at the last election. Part of that enormous loss was how you were seen by migrants. Peter Dutton wanted to cut immigration in this country. It’s going to be become a very important question for you. Do you want to cut the immigration level in Australia?
Senator Scarr
Justin. It is a very important question, and that means the work needs to be done. And that starts with [host interrupted]
Justin Smtih
Senator, respectfully, what does that mean?
Senator Scarr
Well, in the first instance, it means going around listening to our multicultural communities with respect to the devastating loss which we suffered at the last election. Secondly, it means getting the best available evidence with respect to what’s happening in Australia at the moment with respect to all of those multi faceted matters which we need to consider, including skills, including the position in cities versus regions, including in relation to the capacity, the support which is provided to migrants. So there’s a lot of work to be done. Justin.
Justin Smtih
How’s Sussan Ley going to go?
Senator Scarr
I think Sussan’s doing a tremendous job. And I’ve, I’ve seen that firsthand. I saw it at the at the synagogue yesterday. I think she’s, she’s dealt with some very, very complicated political issues since obtaining the leadership, including the relationship with the National Party. She’s also gave a very, very powerful National Press Club Speech, which I was in attendance at. She’s worked in relation to the policy formulation processes of the Coalition. I think that’s incredibly important work, so we take the best suite of policies to the next election. So I think she’s doing a terrific job.
Justin Smtih
You’re a Liberal National, part of the Liberal National Party in Queensland, which is fascinating to people in Victoria, Who got you in the divorce? What was it a joint custody situation, as a Liberal National? How did that work when it all went crazy?
Senator Scarr
I think it became a loving marriage, if I can put it that way. So there were, there were perennial issues. There were perennial issues in Queensland going back through history in terms of three corner contests where we had Liberals running in a seat and Nationals running in a seat. And so there was a diversion of lot of resources from our side of politics to those battles, and ultimately, overwhelmingly, the membership thought the best way forward. The membership of both parties considered the best way forward was a United LNP. And I think the result of the last state election where David Crisafulli became Premier of Queensland is evidence that that actually worked. The fact that we have a majority of the seats in the federal parliament from Queensland is also evidence that it worked.
Justin Smtih
So there’s love?
Senator Scarr
There’s absolutely, there needs to be more love in the world. Justin, there needs to be more love.
Justin Smtih
We really appreciate your time. Thank you very much for coming into the studio and again, welcome to Melbourne. But just before I let you go, there’s been heartbreaking news in Victoria around Childcare. Does there need to be more of a national approach to the way childcare workers are registered?
Senator Scarr
I think this is an area which needs to be closely looked at, because workers cross state boundaries. So you might be working at a childcare cente in Victoria, and then the next week seek a job in New South Wales. So I think that’s that’s one of the issues that needs to be considered. And Justin, can I just say this is something above partisan politics? So when we come back to Canberra on uly 22, I think very single parliamentarian will be bringing with them a determination to get the best possible outcomes in relation to these really serious matters. And we heard from one from your listeners today who I listen to very carefully, absolutely heartbreaking the impact this is having on families.
Justin Smtih
Thank you very much. Good to meet you.
Senator Scarr
Thanks, Justin, thank you.
