What does our Opposition think about the plan? Senator Paul Scarr, Shadow Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs, joins us now. Senator, welcome to the program.
Senator Scarr
Thanks very much, Emma. And can I just say that I have a deep respect for Mike Kelly, and I think he made good sense in that clip you just quoted.
Emma Bickley
And so what has been the reaction to the special envoys plan from the opposition?
Senator Scarr
The opposition welcomes this plan from the special envoy and in fact, many of the themes which are contained in the plan reflect what was contained in the Executive Council of Australian Jewry 15 Point Action Plan, which was released all the way back in February following the anti semitism Summit held in Sydney. And a lot of those actions are actually reflected in this plan. So we think our role is to keep the government to account in terms of implementation of this work plan, because it’s both a call to action, but Emma, it’s also a work plan, and there’s quite a few recommendations which are said, set out in the report, which need to be implemented
Emma Bickley
Now. Jillian Segal has been in that role for about a year. Would you say that the response and the plan being released yesterday was timely enough?
Senator Scarr
I think it’s really important that the plan has now been released. And one point I would make Emma is it’s clear that the special envoy has conducted research in relation these matters. And one of the things that really disturbed me coming out of the report was the difference between the views in relation to anti semitism and broader issues between the over 35 cohort and the under 35 cohort. And I was quite disturbed to read that young Australians are more likely to hold anti semitic views than older Australians. From my perspective, that just underlines the importance of education in this space, and rolling out really effective programs with appropriate spokespeople through our schools, universities, etc, but that was a really disturbing point. I think it highlights the research and the evidence which has been conducted in the formulation of that plan, and I think that gives the plan a lot of credibility.
Emma Bickley
It certainly is concerning that we’re seeing that in our young people. Now, you mentioned education, there are two parts to this, because, of course, you’ve got the rollout of further education being talked about in our schools, etc, but there’s also the the curtailing of certain types of expression, I guessed, on university campuses, the withholding of funding. So the Jewish Council of Australia has come out with concerns about the plan affecting freedom of expression in say, media and university campuses. What are your thoughts on that view?
Senator Scarr
I’m firmly of the view, Emma that this plan will not limit freedom of speech, freedom of legitimate speech, the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition, the examples which are given in its guidance makes it clear that there is no issue whatsoever in terms of criticizing the policies of the Israeli government, criticizing actions of government and engaging in peaceful demonstration with respect to those concerns which many Australians have – no issue with that whatsoever. But there is a boundary which when you cross it, you fall into anti semitism, when you attack the right of the State of Israel to exist as a Jewish state. That is, that is problematic when you attack Jewish people as a group in relation to policies which may be being pursued by the Israeli government, that’s a problem. So I think it’s actually quite clear in most cases where you fall one side of the line or the other. And it really needs to be emphasized that this plan does not circumscribe freedom of speech, people will still be able to raise legitimate concerns with respect to the actions of the State of Israel.
Emma Bickley
An important clarification there on the text line, someone has asked the question. They’ve mentioned the term Trumpian – Jillian Segal is running Trumpian style suggestions that are far too extreme. Yes, there are issues, but Miss Segal’s plan goes way too far. How would you respond to that comment about Jillian Segal’s plan?
Senator Scarr
I reject that. I reject that comment. And I don’t think it’s helpful to be frank, to use those sorts of terms Jillian Segal in relation to the actions of universities. And we should bear in mind here that the university sector has been undertaking responses, but Jillian Segal is basically saying, Look, I’m going to do a report card in terms of how you’re responding to these real issues on campuses, and if you’re not reaching the adequate standards in terms of protecting the safety of your Jewish students. And harmony on Jewish campuses, then there should be a judicial inquiry into anti semitism on Australian campuses. And I’ve got to tell you, Emma, I sat on the inquiry looking into anti semitism on university campuses, and the evidence we received was absolutely horrifying. It was horrifying. We received hundreds of submissions, and one of the things that concerned me was the majority of those submissions were anonymous or name withheld because university students were living in fear on our campuses. Over 60% of Australian Jewish students felt unsupported by the university campus – an astonishing figure,
Emma Bickley
Yeah. We certainly don’t want to be seeing anyone feeling unsafe while they’re at university or otherwise. Final Question for you, Senator, you mentioned you’ll be watching carefully to see how the government implements this plan. How effective do you see all of this being in practice? And what sort of timeline would you expect?
Senator Scarr
Jillian Segal actually, in the plan sets out a timeline in relation to many of the actions, and that includes the example I gave with respect to actions on our university campuses. So I think over Overall, it’s a holistic plan that deals with all aspects of the Australian society. It’s a plan which we need to have. We actually have a national crisis in relation to anti semitism in our country. So I think we all need to work together. And this is one of the points in Jllian’s plan. We all need to work together as a society, to attack, to address, to respond to this surge in anti semitism. So it’s up to all of us. Emma.
Emma Bickley
Senator, do you mind taking one more question that’s come through on the text line.
Senator Scarr
Sure,
Emma Bickley
Bob has asked, I have no problem at all with laws that stop hate speech and crime, but why single out one group? Does this mean we will have a law for each single section of society? And if not, why not? Another worry I have is that criticism of the Israeli government is conflated with anti semitism. The two can be mutually exclusive. This is why the new proposal worries me. I guess Bob has two questions. If we deal with the first one, do you see this as singling out one group, and how would you respond to
Emma Bickley
And finally, Bob’s second question, the concern or the criticism of Israeli Government actions being conflated with anti semitism. And you made the point earlier that the two can be mutually exclusive. But I guess in practice, Bob, our texter, is worried about how that would actually work.
Senator Scarr
Yeah, just in relation to the first question, I’ll make this point when the Federal Parliament introduced laws dealing with threatening people, including people of part of our Jewish community. It dealt with all groups in our society. It dealt with all groups in our society, any group targeted on the basis of their race, their ethnicity, their religion, was encompassed within those laws. So in terms of the laws being made by Parliament. Of course, we make sure that our laws respond and protect to all communities in Australia, as we should. Second point I’d make is that there’s been a particular explosion in terms of anti semitism in this country since 7 October, and we have to confront the reality. And I spoke to parents in Melbourne on this during the week, they’re taking their kids to school, and they have armed guards at the gates of their schools, armed guards- t’s a frightening thing. They’re not just doing fire drills. They’re doing lockdown drills in response to armed, violent intruders potentially coming onto their campuses and schools. That’s the lived reality of our Jewish community today. It is a crisis, and it needs a comprehensive national response.
Senator Scarr
I think the international Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, working guidelines, working example in the guidelines that provides the examples, I think, are quite definitive in terms of where the line is crossed, and I do note that Jillian Segal in her report is talking about issuing further guidance in the Australian context, so hopefully those concerns could be could be dealt with, but I genuinely don’t believe that there’s anything preventing a good faith expression of criticism in relation to the actions of the government of Israel or any other government for. that matter.
Emma Bickley
Senator, that’s all we have time for. Thanks so much.
Senator Scarr
Thanks very much. Emma.
