Senator Paul Scarr is here. He’s one of the LNP Senators from Queensland. He’s also the Shadow Minister for Immigration, part of Sussan Ley’s Shadow Cabinet. Good Morning.
Senator Scarr
Good Morning. Raf. Good to be with you and your listeners in grand final week!
Rafael Epstein
It’s very exciting grand final week and we will leave some time for that. But when Andrew Hastie says we are starting to feel like strangers in our own home, do you think he’s right?
Senator Scarr
Well, there’s a few points I’d like to make. Firstly, in relation to your introduction, I think you need to remember that Andrew Hastie is the Shadow Cabinet Minister with responsibility for Home Affairs. The Department of Home Affairs includes the Department of Immigration, so that needs to be recognised.
Rafael Epstein
They are part of his responsibility.
Senator Scarr
Absolutely. So it’s entirely appropriate that Andrew speaks out, as he does, in relation to all matters in relation to Home Affairs, that includes immigration and he’s also a local member, and he’s very connected with his local community and I think when he talks about the issues around housing affordability, this is a real issue, Raf.
Rafael Epstein
But you haven’t answered my question – that we are starting to feel like strangers in our own home.
Senator Scarr
Well, I think when you look at how Australia has changed, one of the things that has really changed is access to affordable housing and I think that is a real issue. I was looking at some figures the other day – in 2014, we constructed 219,000 housing dwellings in this country. In 2024, we constructed 177,000 dwellings.
Rafael Epstein
Are migrants the problem?
Senator Scarr
It’s an issue with respect to housing supply and when we’re considering our immigration parameters, our policy parameters, we have to consider issues such as housing.
Rafael Epstein
Okay. Can I interrupt? Can I interrupt?
Senator Scarr
Sorry, go on.
Rafael Epstein
Language is super important. Your party is in a hole at the moment. So, I’ve asked you, I think twice – I’m just going to try once again. You can answer the question as you wish, but language-like migration numbers have exploded, and to specifically say we are starting to feel like strangers in our own home. Are you okay with that language?
Senator Scarr
I like to bring it back to the fundamental issues which include issues like housing affordability, housing supply, making sure we get the policy parameters right in terms of immigration, and it’s a very complicated issue in terms of skill shortages in this country, in terms of pressures on housing, pressures on infrastructure so we need to consider all of those elements… [CUT OFF]
Rafael Epstein
Why is your party blaming migrants for the housing problem?
Senator Scarr
From my perspective, these are issues of government policy. The government sets the policy parameters. The government sets the policy parameters around the grant of temporary visas, in relation to our permanent migration intake, in relation to forecasting net overseas migration. The fact of the matter is, in the government’s first budget after it first got elected, it was woefully, woefully underestimated net overseas migration those first two years, and your listeners will be aware of the figures. In the first year, they estimated about a quarter of a million, we got over 500,000 net overseas migration. Second year was over 400,000 so there’s been a woeful performance in terms of the government forecasting and managing this portfolio.
Senator Scarr
Maybe you feel more comfortable answering this question then. Andrew Hastie says migration numbers have exploded. Migration numbers have come down substantially over the last three years. Do you agree when he says migration numbers have exploded?
Senator Scarr
My preference is to actually look at the figures. There’s a huge net overseas migration far in excess of the forecast in that first year after the Labor Party came into government. Again, the number came down the following year, but it was still well above the forecast number and in terms of the last year, it’s important to note, in the 15 years before the covid pandemic, the average net overseas migration rate was 216,000 and the last figures we have. [CUT OFF]
Rafael Epstein
We’re basically heading back to something close to the average, aren’t we?
Rafael Epstein
I would love to get stuck in some of the details about government policy.
Senator Scarr
Well, Raf, are we? [OVER TALKED] It’s coming down. Well, the average before covid was 216,000 but the point, I want to make is this – the government has not outlined its long-term strategy, its long-term planning in relation to net overseas migration… [CUT OFF]
Senator Scarr
Sure.
Rafael Epstein
I mean, it’s as plain as the nose on my face – Andrew Hastie is making your job a nightmare, isn’t he? How many different ethnic communities are you talking to in Melbourne? Vietnamese, Indian, and I’m sorry I’ve forgotten the list.
Senator Scarr
I’m attending a great celebration of the Australian Vietnamese Women’s Association this morning, we’re having meetings with the Indian community, and there’s another with the Chinese Australian Community.
Rafael Epstein
Okay, he’s making your job a nightmare, isn’t he?
Senator Scarr
I think Andrew is standing up for what he believes in, and he has the portfolio of Shadow Cabinet Minister for Home Affairs and that includes the Immigration portfolio, and that needs to be recognised.
Rafael Epstein
Am I going too far if I say that your party is flirting with racists?
Senator Scarr
I completely reject that, that notion – absolutely completely reject it.
Rafael Epstein
We feel like strangers in our own home. That is just straight out of the playbook overseas, isn’t it? I mean, we all know what – who are we?
Senator Scarr
Well, we’re all Australians, anyone who comes to this country from anywhere in the world, whatever their ethnicity, whatever their country of origin, they take that citizenship pledge – they are Australian.
Rafael Epstein
Why won’t you defend his language? Why won’t you defend his language? Andrew Hastie is a man of high principle. I think Andrew Hastie should be applauded. He took an early stand on Ben Roberts-Smith when a lot of people in the SAS did not, I think that is a matter of high principle. I genuinely think he should be applauded for that, because a lot of people in the Special Forces community did not do that. You’re the Shadow Minister for Immigration. He’s a Shadow Minister. He says we feel like strangers. We are starting to feel like strangers in our own home, like you can’t be comfortable with that language.
Senator Scarr
Well, again, my preference is to come back to the factual matters, the realities around issues in relation to our housing supply, the need for long term planning and the need for the government to be transparent with the Australian people. So Raf, when they released the permanent migration intake figures a few weeks ago, it was three sentences. It was three sentences, and this is after a long-term process of consultation with the states, local government… [CUT OFF]
Rafael Epstein
They don’t need to release a detailed statement.
Senator Scarr
But they should, Raf.
Rafael Epstein
But you guys are eating each other.
Senator Scarr
Raf, they should be releasing that for the Australian people.
Rafael Epstein
With respect, your side is making it easy for them. You guys are tearing each other apart with dog whistle language. You’re cleaning it up privately. I’ve had those conversations with people. If you want the government to be better, you guys are going to have to be better.
Senator Scarr
Well, our job as a as an Opposition is to hold the government to account and to come up with a suite of policies based on evidence, based on the facts, to take the Australian people at the next election. I don’t consider that just a political obligation. I consider it a moral obligation.
Rafael Epstein
Are you going to cut numbers a lot on migration? Andrew Hastie, the other thing he said is that the liberal party could die as a political movement if it doesn’t commit to cutting migration. Do you think you need to cut migration significantly?
Senator Scarr
Well, we’ve said that average, that long term average before the covid pandemic, was about 216,000 for the fifteen years before the covid pandemic. So doing the work, you actually need to go into the different categories of migration. You need to consider our skill shortages. There’s also a large family reunion element to that in terms of partner visas and children reunion and I think most of your listeners would agree, if an Australian goes overseas, falls in love, then they have every right to bring their partner back to Australia.
Rafael Epstein
So, what are you going to cut?
Senator Scarr
We need to go through the policy work of consulting with all the stakeholders as I’ve done, as I’ve been doing over the last few months, and come up with the suite of policies to take the next election and one of the things also Raf, I think we need to look at is not just migration, but it’s also skills activation within the country. So, we’re bringing in people to fill skills shortages that need to be met in Australia. So, I met with representatives of the construction industry yesterday. There’s 18,000 people in Australia who have construction related skills but don’t have the licenses, the registrations. Organisations like Settlement Services International have talked about the fact that 44per cent of new Australians are acting below their qualification levels. So, we really need a national concerted effort to make sure every single Australian is being tapped so they can achieve their full potential and provide their skills for the benefit of the Australian economy.
Rafael Epstein
Paul Scarr is The Shadow Minister for Immigration. I’ve got less than 60 seconds left. I’ll get to call after the news on 1300 222 774. Two quick ones, one hard, one easy. Would you prefer Andrew Hastie as the leader of your party?
Senator Scarr
I think Sussan Ley is doing an outstanding job as Leader of the Liberal Party.
Rafael Epstein
And you wouldn’t want Andrew Hastie?
Senator Scarr
Sussan has my 100% support. It’s a very difficult job being Leader of the Opposition.
Rafael Epstein
Have you ever kicked a goal, an Aussie Rules goal on a footy field?
Senator Scarr
Yes.
Rafael Epstein
So, you played Aussie rules as a kid?
Senator Scarr
Yes, I did. It was very big in Queensland in primary school, and I was a fullback and kicked a goal. Actually, I was a ruck. I was a stand in ruck when I kicked that goal.
Rafael Epstein
Okay, but normally you were a full back at school.
Senator Scarr
The Flying Doormat! Bruce Doull is my hero.
Rafael Epstein
And are you a Lions Fan?
Senator Scarr
Absolutely! I used to be a Carlton fan, but as soon as we got the Lions, we’re all Lions fans in Queensland now, mate.
Rafael Epstein
Thank you for coming in.
Senator Scarr
Thanks, Raf.
