Joining me live is Shadow Immigration Minister Paul Scarr. Thank you for your time. Get to your portfolio in a moment. But are you tearing your hair out yet another big national distraction?
Senator Scarr
Really Tom, that’s a matter for Barnaby, and obviously he gave an interview this morning. I’ve been on the campaign trail with Barnaby since being elected as a Senator in 2019 and before that and I hope Barnaby does take the time to consider his position. He really is someone who’s held in very high regard by a lot of the membership of the National Party and by a lot of Queenslanders. So I hope he takes the time to reflect.
Tom Connell
Given all that he’s had under the Coalition, including being the Deputy Prime Minister, it would be somewhat of a betrayal of the Coalition, wouldn’t it if you left for One Nation?
Senator Scarr
It is a matter for Barnaby. I just hope he takes the time to reflect. The last contact I had with him was when I actually congratulated him for coming out publicly in relation to his battle against prostate cancer, and I thought that was a great thing that he did, and will benefit a lot of people around the country. So I just hope he takes time to reflect and makes the right decision for him.
Tom Connell
And reflect that whilst he’s given his service to the Coalition, it’s given plenty back to him. Should that be part of the reflection?
Senator Scarr
I’m sure he’s going to consider that. I’m sure he’s going to consider that. I mean, he’s been on such a journey from that time when he was first pre selected by the National Party to stand as a Senator back in 2004, and he actually won that race, and it was a very difficult race, and he won that race, and in fact, it gave the Howard Coalition Government a then majority in the Senate. So it’s been a hell of a journey Barnaby has been on, and I just hope he and his family take the time to consider what’s the best decision for them.
Senator Scarr
This is partly with the Nats wrestling over Net Zero. I mean, if they scrap it as it seems likely, and the Liberal Party supports it. How does that look if you win government? Which party wins the day?
Senator Scarr
I don’t think we should be talking about hypotheticals in that regard. The Liberal Party is going through its own process, and there’ll certainly be discussions when we go back to Canberra next week, giving all members, giving all senators, representatives from all over the country an opportunity to have their input and I really want to congratulate Sussan Ley on the process. The process is important. It’s important that everyone in the party room has the opportunity to hear the arguments and put their case before we make such an important decision.
Tom Connell
Your portfolio of immigration. So the process from here, because I know there’s some Coalition working groups, but also, obviously you’re the Minister. How does this all work in terms of getting your policy? Are you developing them, and then you’ll take them to Shadow Cabinet and then to the party room? Is it a working group? How will you land on this policy because a lot in your party have an opinion on it.
Senator Scarr
Oh, absolutely! There’s a lot of people in the party who have an opinion about it, and there’s a lot of people outside the party room who’ve got opinions on it. So it’s really important that we take the time to consider the facts and the evidence, to get the best insights we can from employers, from industry groups, from people on the ground dealing with these sorts of issues, from different sectors, the agriculture sector, the tourism sector, the construction industry. We take the time to get the evidence, get the data, and then we go through our party processes, and there is a back bench policy committee process. There’s also Shadow Cabinet and the Outer Shadow Ministry and from my perspective, Tom, I want to consult with everyone, absolutely everyone in the party room, a whole range of different shadow ministers need to be consulted because Immigration is something that touches upon all portfolios. It touches on Foreign Affairs, it touches on Finance, it touches upon agriculture, tourism, housing. So it’s really important that there’s broad consultation, and we get this policy right.
Tom Connell
But you have some carriage there, so yes, consultation, but you’ll be the one coming up with the policy, subject to approval from your colleagues?
Senator Scarr
Well, I’ve got the responsibility as Shadow Immigration Minister, and I take that very keenly, and I’ll be looking to put forward the best proposals that I can, outline the options and outline the facts and evidence to support those options for consideration by colleagues.
Tom Connell
On facts and evidence. Is there a sense of needing to temper expectations from some colleagues around let’s take a huge axe to immigration numbers, because of all the areas you mentioned that look to cut anywhere, and there’s always the possibility of an impact on the economy.
Senator Scarr
It’s a good point you make, Tom, but I’m pretty confident that colleagues understand that, and certainly in the discussions I had in Canberra when we were last there. I heard from regional members in relation to the enduring skill shortages that are occurring outside of the major capital cities. So, I think there is an understanding that there are factors here that need to be balanced. It is complicated. It’s multifaceted. The situation in our major metropolitan cities is somewhat different from the regions, and we need to take the time to get the policy right. But at the same time, I think it’s appalling that the government is not providing detail with respect to their own long term planning processes, because I think the Australian people deserve that.
Tom Connell
What about in a macro sense, because when it comes to Net Migration, it is a demand driven project. Yes, you can have various policies. Labor has some. You can have some as well that can pull levers and change flows, but it’s still demand driven. Would you or are you considering changing the fact that is a demand driven system?
Senator Scarr
Well it is demand driven in certain ways, but in other ways, it does depend upon the settings of particular visa classes. So I think it’s fair to say it’s a mix. You do have different cohorts where there are particular arrangements in place with other countries, and New Zealand is the is the standout in that respect. So people living in New Zealand have the opportunity to travel to Australia, vice versa. So if the labor market is soft in New Zealand, you do get net overseas migration coming into Australia and we saw that for the last year.
Tom Connell
So would it be good to have as many areas as possible where government can actually set the number? Is that what you seek?
Senator Scarr
Well, in terms of in terms of arrivals, I think we’ve certainly got the ability in terms of visa settings, to actually set some expectations and do plannings with respect to arrivals. With respect to the departure side of the equation, obviously, say, for example, in terms of Australian Citizens deciding to go overseas or permanent residents, that’s entirely up to them. But at the same time Tom, we’ve got something like 40,000 people currently in the Administrative Review Tribunal process who were denied student visas. It’s an extraordinary number, so we’ve got to work out how we can get through those processes and procedures as quickly as possible.
Tom Connell
Okay? Paul Scarr, appreciate your time. Thank you.
