Joining me live now is Shadow Immigration Minister Paul Scarr. Thank you so much for your time. We’re seeing so much play out now in regard to Labor’s hate speech reforms. The Albanese Government is accusing the Opposition of playing politics with this. Are you?
Senator Scarr:
Oh, absolutely not. What we’re doing is working in the national interest. These are extremely important laws, they’re complicated laws. We were given approximately 500 pages of material late on Monday. It was released to the general public on Tuesday. We’ve been working in good faith through that material, getting the views of all stakeholders. There were serious concerns raised with us and in the public domain during the public inquiry held by the Parliamentary Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence and Security over the past two days. Simple questions that the department had difficulty answering. For example, will “globalise the Intifada” fall within the domain of the racial vilification offence or not? We couldn’t get a simple answer. The meaning of a “religious text”, what is or is not a religious text? The operation of the defence in the racial vilification offence, how would that operate? Does it neuter the effect of the law in terms of operating against hate preachers? These are all really serious issues. As we speak now, there is still just over 30 minutes for the public, for all stakeholders, to put in their submissions. So, this is a very, very rushed process.
Host:
They’re all very worthwhile questions. But if Sussan Ley had her way, you guys would have all been back before Christmas getting it done. It would have been even more rushed.
Senator Scarr:
No, I don’t agree with that. I think it was very important that Parliament was convened as soon as possible after the Bondi terrorist attack. It was important as a sign of unity and solidarity to come to the Parliament after that attack and discuss the roadmap forward. I also think it would have been preferable if the Government had engaged in close discussions with the Opposition Leader, as Sussan Ley invited, after the Bondi terrorist attack, particularly regarding the content of this bill. The fact is, the first we knew of some of the important issues raised in the bill was on Monday night, and that includes the operation of this defence.
Host:
Okay, so you say there hasn’t been enough collaboration. On the concern the Opposition clearly has about the bill risking criminalising mainstream political speech, Labor says this might be the only way to capture hate preachers. What’s your argument?
Senator Scarr:
Well, I don’t accept that proposition. I think Sussan was very strong earlier today in saying the purpose of this bill must be to address the explosion in antisemitism we saw after 7 October, and also to address radical Islamist extremism, the extremism underpinning Islamic State and other terrorist organisations. That needed to be the laser focus. When the legislation was provided to us late on Monday, it covered a range of other matters, which creates complexity and raises serious concerns.
Host:
With these concerns, where to from here for the Opposition? Are you proposing amendments? Do you want longer to debate the legislation? What’s the fix?
Senator Scarr:
We are engaging in good faith and considering all the serious concerns raised today. I’ve been reading submissions as they’ve been released by the Parliamentary Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence and Security. Many submissions, from experts in criminal law, freedom of religion and more, raise additional issues. We need time to go through those concerns, weigh them up, and then go through our usual processes in an orderly way, including Shadow Cabinet and, of course, the party room.
Host:
The Executive Council of Australian Jewry is backing the legislation. Doesn’t this put the Coalition in a difficult spot, opposing legislation supported by one of the most prominent Jewish organisations, especially after what happened in Bondi?
Senator Scarr:
We need to consider the views of all stakeholders. I have great respect for Peter Wertheim and the work he has done, and I’ve had that respect since entering the Senate. Of course, his views need to be considered, but so do the views of all other stakeholders, including within the Jewish community.
Host:
Regarding the gun reform component. You’ve said the Government is attempting to wedge your party by making it an omnibus bill. The Government says you can’t ignore the fact that one of the alleged gunmen obtained the weapons used in the Bondi attack legally. We saw the Coalition in New South Wales push back on similar reforms before Christmas. There were concerns from farmers and regional communities, but the reforms still went through. Do you think what happened at the state level was a bad move?
Senator Scarr:
I strongly believe these matters shouldn’t be conflated, racial vilification offences and firearms regulation shouldn’t be dealt with in the same bill. They should have been split out. I think it was a sign of bad faith by the Albanese Labor Government to put them together in an omnibus bill. From the start, there should have been greater consultation with the Opposition and with Sussan Ley, and the bill should have been presented in the most constructive way possible, that means splitting it.
Host:
Paul Scarr, thank you for your time. Talk soon.
