I want to bring in Liberal Senator Paul Scarr, who was Shadow Minister for Multicultural Affairs when Sussan Ley was leader. Paul Scarr, thank you for joining us.
Paul Scarr: Good to be with you, Sarah.
Sarah: Firstly, what is your reaction to the comments Pauline Hanson has made?
Paul Scarr: Well, it’s very sad from my perspective. I actually went and listened to the podcast after I saw the reports, and the fact that she has come out and lamented the end of the White Australia Policy is just beyond the pale.
We should actually celebrate the end of the White Australia Policy. It was an act of enlightenment, and it was something that was contributed to by previous Coalition governments, especially under former Prime Minister Harold Holt, and by the Whitlam Government. It was a sign of progress in Australia, and yet here she is lamenting the end of the White Australia Policy.
Sarah: Your leader, Angus Taylor, said that her comments are a matter for her. Should he have taken a stronger position on Pauline Hanson’s rhetoric?
Paul Scarr: Well, I think the other thing Angus said is that he’s out and about meeting Australian businesses and talking to the Australian community about what’s happening in Australia and what’s concerning the Australian public, rather than listening to Pauline Hanson’s podcast with that vile extremist and convicted criminal, Tommy Robinson.
Sarah: Sure, but does it worry you that he’s not able to articulate a position? Does that reflect on his leadership?
Paul Scarr: No, I don’t think so. Angus has been very strong from day one that he supports a migration policy that is not discriminatory and does not discriminate on the basis of race, ethnicity, or religion. He’s been absolutely 100 per cent behind that policy position.
Sarah: Pauline Hanson did say the abolition of the White Australia Policy was the start of migration issues in Australia. How do you describe that kind of language? It’s extreme, it’s negative, it’s divisive, it’s wrong—and every single day—is it racist?
Paul Scarr: Well, it has to be considered as having racist overtones because the White Australia Policy was all about confining immigration to this country to people from particular ethnic backgrounds. I don’t think you can escape that conclusion.
The fact of the matter is that the Australian story is made up of contributions from people from a whole diverse range of cultural and ethnic backgrounds, and we’re stronger for it.
Sarah: Paul Scarr, you crossed the floor to support a censure motion against Pauline Hanson earlier this year when she said there were no good Muslims. Would you support another Senate censure over these comments?
Paul Scarr: Well, that’s a matter for the Senate, but obviously I’d consider it very carefully. The point I’d make is that the better thing to do is scrutinise what One Nation’s policies are and what the One Nation leadership team are actually saying.
Earlier in the week, we had scrutiny of Senator Malcolm Roberts and his appearance on a podcast with Alex Jones, who made vile comments about the Sandy Hook school massacre. I think it’s entirely appropriate that One Nation comes under this scrutiny, and I think that’s the most important thing.
I also congratulate Angus Taylor for the speech he gave last week to the Sydney Institute.
Sarah: We have heard from One Nation MP Barnaby Joyce that, allegedly, Gina Rinehart funded Pauline Hanson’s trip through Sicily and the UK. In your view, does that matter?
Paul Scarr: I’m more concerned about One Nation’s policies and statements like what we heard on the podcast. From my perspective, that’s the most important thing and what we should be shining a light on for the benefit of the Australian people, so they can come to a judgment themselves.
The other point I’d make is that One Nation is not a centre-right party. They are not a party of the centre-right. They are extreme, and I think this has to be recognised in the context of political debate.
Sarah: Do you think this will hurt One Nation’s polling and ultimately lead people back to the Liberal Party?
Paul Scarr: I think the more people look at One Nation’s policies and the more they understand Senator Hanson’s views on matters such as the former White Australia Policy, the more they will realise that One Nation does not provide the path forward for Australia.
Sarah: Was it appropriate for your colleague Jacinta Price to reshare an excerpt of herself on the Two Worlds Collide Again far-right podcast, talking about the potential for Labor to bring in certain types of migrants to boost the Labor Party’s vote share?
Paul Scarr: I already made some comments on those matters last year when I held the shadow portfolio.
The point I’d make is that immigration from India has been of great benefit to the Australian people, and the Indian-Australian diaspora is absolutely key to Australia building its relationship with India. They are our human bridge and contribute to our country in so many ways.
Sarah: Have you tried to speak to her about that? Have you shared your views on those comments?
Paul Scarr: I think everyone in the party and the broader community is aware of my views on that matter.
Immigration has occurred in a non-discriminatory way under both the previous Coalition Government over three terms and under the current Labor Government. People are well aware of my views.
Sarah: I want to move on to AI. Following the Prime Minister’s landmark speech this week, Shadow Science Minister Aaron Violi spoke about tougher regulation across all facets of AI, not just data centres. Do you think the national framework should also encompass things like the ethical use of AI in education or the workplace?
Paul Scarr: These are really serious questions, and I think we’ve got to consider both the benefits and the risks of AI.
In terms of the benefits, there are obviously potential gains in productivity, and that has to be considered. We can’t be left in the shadows while the world moves forward and adopts AI. We’ve got to keep up with global progress in this respect.
On the other hand, there are serious questions around matters such as copyright, intellectual property, and the use of AI in education. We need to make sure that appropriate guardrails are in place.
Sarah: Do you think the government’s assurance that existing copyright protections will remain in place is good enough, or will it alleviate the concerns of creatives?
Paul Scarr: I think there was a positive response to some of those remarks in the Prime Minister’s speech. We need to see the detail—the meat on the bone.
There are obvious concerns that people’s intellectual property could be cannibalised by others for their own profit, and I think that is a legitimate concern not only for the creative arts sector but for the broader community as well.
Sarah: As it stands, the national standards and legislation the government hopes to introduce and pass early next year relate mainly to data centres and their environmental impact. Is that something the Coalition is likely to support?
Paul Scarr: We need to see the detail of that. But I would say, based on the advice I’ve received, that we can’t be left behind.
There’s an opportunity to capture a significant amount of investment, and I’d hate to see Australia move too slowly and miss those opportunities.
As with all things, you’ve got to get the balance right.
Sarah: Paul Scarr, we’ll leave it there. Thank you for your time.
Paul Scarr: Thank you.
Sarah: That was Liberal Senator Paul Scarr responding to Pauline Hanson’s interview with Tommy Robinson and the government’s plans to put guardrails around AI.
