Paul Scarr is the Shadow Immigration Minister. He is joining me now. Welcome.
Senator Scarr
Thanks PK. Great to be with you and your viewers.
Patricia Karvelas
Should the Coalition or should the Liberal Party keep Net Zero by 2050?
Senator Scarr
Well, I was listening to what both Melissa and Maria said in your introduction, and I couldn’t help but think there’s truth in what both are saying. So, on the one hand, we must deal with the issue of electricity costs, and families are struggling, businesses are struggling. There’s absolutely no doubt about that. But, as Maria said, we need to also consider the message we received at the last federal election, and I think most Australians do expect us to take a responsible climate action policy to the next election. So, I think we must get the balance right. It is not Net Zero at any cost. I don’t think we have to have legislated Net Zero targets by 2050, but at the same time, we must treat the issue with the seriousness that the Australian people expect us to treat it.
Patricia Karvelas
Okay, so you’re saying, don’t legislate Net Zero by 2050, but do you want the Liberal Party room to keep it as an aspiration?
Senator Scarr
I think absolutely. If we’re going to stay in the Paris Climate Change Treaty, then I think it’s inherent in that that we have an aspiration that we’re moving towards that target in the longer term, and that necessarily means emissions reduction. To me, it doesn’t make any sense to talk about the Paris Treaty, and then on the other hand say that we don’t have an aspiration to go towards Net Zero. I just don’t see that as being compatible.
Patricia Karvelas
So, I want to just dig into the aspiration, because it’s a bit confusing for normal people. Like, I aspire to be tall, blonde, and beautiful, but it’s not going to happen, right? So just help me out.
Senator Scarr
You’re fine as you are, PK!
Patricia Karvelas
I’m trying to make a point that you can aspire, but are you going to make it happen? I. want to know what your view is on making it happen.
Senator Scarr
Absolutely. So look, from my perspective, we need to have affordable electricity, and at the moment, and I don’t want to necessarily go over the political talking points, but the fact of the matter is, electricity prices have gone up over the last three or four years, and that is posing real issues. So, there’s got to be a priority in terms of bringing those electricity prices down. We’ve got to be practical about what’s achievable in the medium term and the longer term, and there are issues, real issues, in terms of social license in our regional communities, our regional areas, with respect to the imposition that’s being placed upon them with respect to wind farm, solar farms, transmission requirements, etc., and we have to work out what’s affordable for industry as well. So, it is a balance. It is nuance, and we’ve got to try and get the balance right, and we’ve got to try and reach a consensus over the next week. That is incredibly important that we reach a consensus with the party, so we’re united, coming out the other end of this.
Patricia Karvelas
Okay. The two words “Net Zero” appear to be very contentious. Just to get your absolute clarity, do you think those two words should be in your policy?
Senator Scarr
Well, I’m not sure how you can have them not in the policy mix, when the whole point about Paris and about reducing our emissions is moving towards that aspiration of Net Zero. It seems to me that you’ve got to look at the policy substance first, and then you look at how we communicate that to the Australian people. But I just don’t believe that you can on the one hand say we’re in the Paris Treaty, but then on the other hand, saying we can’t use the phrase Net Zero, it just doesn’t make sense to me. What makes sense to me is to say we don’t believe in Net Zero at any cost. That makes sense to me.
Patricia Karvelas
Yesterday, Andrew Bragg, after being pressed by my colleague, David Speers, said he would consider quitting the front bench if Net Zero was dumped. There’s a story breaking that others, including Maria Kovacic, Anne Ruston and Tim Wilson, would consider that. Would you consider that?
Senator Scarr
I’m not going there, PK.
Patricia Karvelas
Why not?
Senator Scarr
From my perspective, our 100% focus must be to reach consensus in our own party and then appoint the delegates to have the discussion with our friends in the National Party with a view to maintaining the Coalition. We really need to focus on that. I think that’s the expectation of the Australian people, and that’s what I’m absolutely focused on. If we don’t achieve that, I think then we’ve let the Australian people down.
Patricia Karvelas
So, you want a deal. The Conservatives hardened their view, though, after the Nationals said that they want to dump Net Zero, and the conservatives don’t want the language of Net Zero to be in there. Do you think you can still get a deal with them?
Senator Scarr
Well, again, I think let’s focus on the policy substance first, and then work out what the nomenclature is. But, from my perspective, as I said, Paris, it’s an aspiration towards Net Zero. Moving towards Net Zero is inextricably linked to the Paris Treaty. I’m not sure how you can divorce the two.
Patricia Karvelas
Okay, but you said you don’t want to reflect on whether you would quit the front bench. Other colleagues have. Do you think it’s wise for colleagues to quit the front bench if you dump Net Zero as a party?
Senator Scarr
Well, I don’t think it’s about myself being on the front bench or the back bench. It’s about producing a policy that’s in the national interest, which reflects the values of the Liberal Party, and where we can keep consensus. That consensus is so important. We’ve got to be united as we come out of this this time next week.
Patricia Karvelas
Are you worried about the party splitting?
Senator Scarr
No, I don’t think so, PK. There’s enough goodwill there, I think. I was at that meeting we had a week or two ago, with a whole range of opinions in that room, with Dan Tehan and you know, there’s so much common ground. We accept science, we accept we need to reduce emissions, we accept cost is a real issue, we accept that we’ve got to maintain our agricultural industry, our manufacturing capacity. So, there’s so much common ground. I’d find it inconceivable that we couldn’t get through this week and keep it all together.
Patricia Karvelas
Okay, but you’re also saying Net Zero must stay in which they’re saying they don’t want it to be the case. So, you might want a deal, but I haven’t seen one yet. So, how can you stay in Coalition with the Nationals if your view prevails?
Senator Scarr
Well, we need to have that discussion with the National Party, and the National Party have made it clear that they’re committed to the Paris Treaty, and they’ve also made it clear that they’re committed to Emissions Reduction. So again, we have that commonality in terms of goals and in terms of targets. The National Party have put forward that Australia should look at what its peers are doing on the international scene, and it’s going to be important for us to consider that. At the same time, we’ve got to consider our own national interests. I would like to see us move towards Nuclear Power generation. I would like to see us keeping those technology agnostic options open. I think that’s an important part of the debate, and we’ve got to have these discussions over the course of the next week, but we’ve got to maintain consensus. We’ve got to strive to reach consensus.
Patricia Karvelas
Tony Barry, who was a Liberal Party Strategist, now runs his own business looking at research, as you know. He told me in a piece I wrote for ABC news today, and I’m going to read it to you. He said, “having terrorist cells operating inside the Coalition is not a pathway to electoral success”. Are there terrorist cells operating in the Liberal Party that are trying to bring Sussan Ley down?
Senator Scarr
From what I’m seeing in PK, there are people in the context of this debate. There are people in the party who are enthusiastic about their local communities, enthusiastic about their local regions. They’re seeing some of the social discourse that’s occurring around things like wind farms and solar farms in their local communities, and they’re seeking, in good faith, to represent the interests of their local communities, and I respect that.
Patricia Karvelas
Okay. But someone like Sarah Henderson, who clearly undermined the Leader the other day.
Senator Scarr
Well, it’s up to colleagues to determine how they express themselves.
Patricia Karvelas
What do you think of it, though?
Senator Scarr
I would say, it’s really important that we operate as a team, and what I seek to do every day is to be constructive, to be positive, and I’ll just talk about how I aspire to achieve the goals and the ambitions that I have, which is to be a constructive member of a team.
Patricia Karvelas
Let me ask you about something else. In a couple of weeks, at the end of the month, there’ll be more rallies that are Anti-Immigration, but they’re also Net Zero. There are a few other things that they are into. It’s called “Put Australia First. Jacinta Price is speaking at the Sydney Rally that they have announced. They’ve got their own website. They are a movement against Immigration, and that’s the spirit of it. Do you think it’s wise that a Liberal Senator would speak at such a thing?
Senator Scarr
It’s up to my colleagues as to where… [cut off]
Patricia Karvelas
Is that helpful as you rebuild your brand to the mainstream to be associated?
Senator Scarr
It underlines PK, in my mind, how important it is that we try and emphasize the facts and the evidence in relation to this debate, and communicate that to the Australian people. The immigration debate is an extremely important debate because we’ve got to maintain our social cohesion. The fact of the matter is, the Scanlan Foundation released research recently that showed 51% of Australians are concerned about the levels of migration. As someone involved in the political debate, we must take heed of that, and we must do the work to work out how we develop a policy to take to the next election that has the support of most of the Australian people. That’s something all of us have a responsibility for doing our best, to make sure people are considering the facts and the evidence.
Patricia Karvelas
Many thanks for joining us.
Senator Scarr
Thanks PK.
