You’re with Radio National Breakfast. Well, Sussan Ley has dismissed what she calls a frenzy of speculation in the media over her future as Opposition Leader, insisting she has the confidence of her team. But frontbencher Angus Taylor has refused to rule out a tilt at the Liberal leadership, saying the party needs to show Australians it is united. Paul Scarr is the Shadow Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs, and joins me now. Paul Scarr, welcome back to Breakfast.
Senator Scarr
Thanks, Sally. Good to be with you and your listeners.
Sally Sara
Does Sussan Ley have your support as Liberal leader?
Senator Scarr
One hundred percent. Sussan has my one hundred percent support, and I think she has demonstrated since becoming leader how she’s been able to navigate some very, very difficult issues. She’s been able to reinforce our Liberal Party values, and she’s been able to be constructive. I think last week we passed legislation which was in the national interest. We obtained some major concessions from the Labor Government to introduce additional safeguards in relation to important legislation. I think that speaks for itself.
Sally Sara
Originally, Sussan Ley said that those potential reforms were unsalvageable. Has she handled that process well, in your view?
Senator Scarr
Sussan has handled the process well. And I think, again, I come back to that point about the national interest. Obviously, there were substantial changes from that monster omnibus bill which Parliament was originally presented with. Over the course of the week, we all worked diligently. We all worked hard, and I think that’s recognised by people in all quarters, to improve that legislation, introduceimportant safeguardsfor the Australian people in relation to protecting their freedom of speech, while at the same time passing legislation that was in the national interest to protect the Australian community. And I think it’s terribly important for everyone to note there was a great risk if that legislation was not passed. People tend to refer to the risks arising from the legislation, but there was risk in not passing that legislation. So, I think Sussan behaved very responsibly.
Sally Sara
Have you been contacted by any of your colleagues trying to secure support for potential leadership contenders at all?
Senator Scarr
No, I have not.
Sally Sara
Would you like to see those Liberals being named in the press as possible candidates for party leadership, specifically Andrew Hastie and Angus Taylor, be more explicit and rule out a tilt at the top job?
Senator Scarr
Well, look, that’s really a matter for them. I do note that Angus did refer to his responsibilities as a member of shadow cabinet, and that was quite positive. And from my perspective, Sally, there is so much speculation now in the media. Now, there is no announced challenge; there is no announced intention to seek a spill. So really, now, it’s all sound and fury signifying nothing.
Sally Sara
You’re listening to Radio National Breakfast. My guest is the Shadow Minister for Immigration, Paul Scarr. Your colleague Dan Tehan told Sky News yesterday that all Liberals and Nationals need to be focused on bringing the two parties back together, saying it will be harder to achieve if it isn’t done in the next two to three weeks. Earlier this morning on Radio National Breakfast, we heard from Jason Falinski, former federal Member for Mackellar in Sydney and former President of the Liberal Party’s New South Wales Branch. This is what he had to say.
Audio Grab
We would be very happy to have them back, but now they’re triangulating because they’re so freaked out by what’s happening with One Nation, which they’ve created themselves, I’ve got to say. I don’t think it works for us to continue to be in a coalition with them. My very strong preference is for the National Party to work out that what they’ve been doing for nearly two decades now has not been working for them, much less for the Liberal Party.
Sally Sara
So he’s suggesting a longer separation. What do you think?
Senator Scarr
I think, Sally, in the medium and long term, the evidence demonstrates, and this is political history, that we are stronger when we are in coalition, and that is something I think everyone needs to constructively work towards. I do commend Sussan for the good grace with which she has handled the events over the past week, and she has certainly left that door open. I think that’s the appropriate posture to take now. And the other thing I’ll note, Sally, is I come from Queensland, and we learned a long time ago that if you want to be an effective government on the centre‑right side of politics, you need to be united and you need to put your best foot forward.
Sally Sara
Let’s turn to your shadow portfolio of immigration. We were expecting the Coalition’s new immigration policy to be announced before Christmas. It was delayed due to the Bondi attack. When are we going to see it?
Senator Scarr
That’s something we’ll be discussing internally, and I can tell you that is a matter of active discussion. But I want to emphasise that, in relation to the immigration policy, Sussan Ley has done exactly what she said she would do, in the sense that she’s given all members of the party, all members of the backbench, the opportunity to have their input, to have their say, as part of a constructive process. And I think that underlines the point that Sussan has done everything that could reasonably be expected of her in my portfolio area, but also in relation to other portfolio areas.
Sally Sara
Has the immigration policy been finalised and you’re waiting for the right time to announce it? Or are the details still being finalised and discussed?
Senator Scarr
It’s been substantially advanced. A lot of work has gone into it, and I’d really like to thank Jonno Duniam as Shadow Minister for Home Affairs. It’s been an absolute pleasure working with him in a collaborative process. But there are still some processes that need to be gone through.
Sally Sara
So was it ready to launch in December before Bondi?
Senator Scarr
It was certainly substantially advanced, and a lot of work had gone into the policy. But obviously, given the events at Bondi, given the focus that we had to responsibly take, there was a very strong case for a delay, which has occurred. But I think it should be released quite soon.
Sally Sara
Has it been shaped in part by colleagues such as Andrew Hastie, who have been very public in calling for a reduced immigration intake?
Senator Scarr
The input of all colleagues has been received, and everyone has had their opportunity to have a say in the processes we undertook. And again, that reflects the commitment Sussan Ley made when she became leader, to make sure everyone in the party room has an opportunity to have their input. As has been stated by a number of people, including myself as the relevant shadow, our immigration rate, even though it has come down over the last three years, is still at 306,000, which is 90,000 above the ten‑year long-term average before the COVID pandemic. The Australian Bureau of Statistics and the Centre for Population have noted that rates of departure of people on temporary visas are still 15% below what they should be. So, there are some material issues that really need to be addressed.
Sally Sara
Some anti‑immigration events were held in different parts of the country yesterday. A man was charged after he was arrested at a rally in Sydney for alleged hate speech, while police in Melbourne are investigating a man for allegedly performing a Nazi salute, and police in Western Australia are investigating a device thrown into an Invasion Day rally crowd in Perth which they were concerned may contain explosives. What do you take from those events?
Senator Scarr
Well, those were all very disturbing reports coming out of Sydney and Melbourne in relation to the things you referred to, and that report out of Perth. At the same time, elected members all over the country attended citizenship ceremonies. I had the privilege, with fellow elected members, of being a presiding officer, talking to conferees, new Australian citizens, hearing their stories, and seeing the joy they felt at becoming Australian citizens; hearing about the contributions they’ve already made and their dreams and hopes to contribute to Australia long into the future. And that represents the very best of Australia. So, I think we need to look at that side of the equation as well.
Sally Sara
Given the current political environment, do you have concerns that releasing your immigration proposals carries a risk that it could raise the temperature?
Senator Scarr
Look, we will be measured and considered, and that’s certainly the approach I’ve taken since adopting this portfolio. The discussion needs to be had. I think the Australian people expect us to have the discussion. But of course, we need to be measured and considered in the way we approach the debate. From my point of view, Sally, one of the great issues we’re facing is the lack of medium‑term and long‑term planning. I would like to get to a situation where we’ve got that medium and long‑term planning in place so that we can get that social licence for our immigration policy
