Well, staying on the legislative response to the Bondi attack, we’ll get the Opposition’s view now. Paul Scarr is the Shadow Minister for Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs. Welcome to Radio National Breakfast.
Senator Scarr
Good to be with you, Jade, and your listeners.
Host
The Opposition Leader, Sussan Ley, has described this legislation as “pretty unsalvageable.” Does that mean the Coalition is preparing to vote against it, or will you propose amendments?
Senator Scarr
There are serious concerns with this legislation. When we had the public hearing of the Parliamentary Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence and Security on Tuesday, less than 24 hours after being given nearly 500 pages of legislative material. It was surprising that the department couldn’t answer some of the most obvious questions about how this bill would operate. In particular, how it would address the explosion in antisemitism since 7 October, and how it would address the radical Islamist extremism that underpins Islamic State. I’ll give you two examples. First, the department was asked whether the bill would effectively ban the phrase “Globalize the Intifada.” Second, it was asked what constitutes a “religious text” for the purpose of the defence relating to religious discussion. If you’re talking about addressing egregious actions, advocacy, and the rhetoric of hate preachers, you need to be able to succinctly answer those sorts of questions. We have serious concerns about whether the bill meets its objectives. A range of concerns have also been raised by stakeholders. Bear in mind, people were still trying to lodge submissions up until 4 pm yesterday. I’ve been working through those submissions, as has the team, and serious issues have been raised by criminal law experts and freedom‑of‑religion experts.
Host
So what is the Coalition’s plan? What will you do when Parliament returns next week?
Senator Scarr
At this stage, we’re still working through the committee processes. We need to have our internal party meetings, including Shadow Cabinet. We also need to ensure colleagues in both the House and the Senate have the opportunity to be heard, before a formal party room meeting finalises our position. But it is concerning that we’re at this point, less than one business day before Parliament returns, and these serious concerns persist. This is a significant and complicated piece of legislation. It deals with a raft of matters bundled into one large omnibus bill, which is an entirely inappropriate way to approach this issue. We haven’t even received a submission from the Law Council of Australia, for example. I sat on the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee inquiry into the hate‑crimes legislation introduced in 2024, and the Law Council made extremely important contributions to that process. This process has been entirely unsatisfactory. There was no consultation with the Opposition on key concepts before a briefing was given late on Monday, and that is totally unacceptable.
Host
The Prime Minister has pointed to Sussan Ley’s repeated calls, in the wake of the Bondi attack, for Parliament to be recalled and for urgent action. Is it fair to now accuse the government of rushing its response?
Senator Scarr
I do believe Parliament should have been recalled following the Bondi terrorist attack, recalled as soon as possible, as a sign of unity and solidarity, and to allow parliamentarians from across Australia to come together to discuss what had happened and map out a way forward. That would have been of great benefit. But clearly, a process where nearly 500 pages of legislative material are provided to the Opposition and to stakeholders only five business days before Parliament debates the bill is not working. We can see it’s not working, and that needs to be carefully considered.
Host
You’re listening to Radio National Breakfast. My guest is the Shadow Minister for Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs, Paul Scarr. The Executive Council of Australian Jewry has urged the Coalition not to let “the perfect become the enemy of the good,” one month after the Bondi attack. What’s your response?
Senator Scarr
I have a great deal of respect for the Executive Council of Australian Jewry, for Peter Wertheim and the whole team. In my six and a half years in the Senate, they’ve made submissions and advocated on a range of extremely important issues, especially since 7 October. We need to consider the views of all stakeholders, and all Australians, about whether this legislation meets its purpose.In your earlier interview, the Minister referred to whether the legislation would be robust enough to address community concerns. That is a serious question. And this week’s inquiry raised more questions, for example, when we asked the department to define “religious text.” When you’re talking about addressing hate preachers, that is a fundamental question. So, in assessing whether the legislation is fit for purpose, these concerns remain.
Host
The Greens have raised concerns about the bill as well, but say they’re exploring possible amendments. Does the Coalition risk cutting itself out of negotiations and ending up with legislation passed by Labor and the Greens? Would that be an acceptable outcome?
Senator Scarr
From my perspective, we need to focus on the national interest. It’s deeply concerning that in this legislation, Labor’s bill, released publicly on Tuesday morning, and discussed at the inquiry that same day, fundamental questions couldn’t be answered about key phrases, including what constitutes a religious text. That question is central to whether the defence Labor proposes regarding hate preaching would operate at all. These are fundamental issues that go to whether the bill meets its purpose.
Host
Thanks for joining me this morning.
Senator Scarr
Thanks very much.
