On Monday, Senator David Pocock moved four motions in the Senate which would have forced the ANU to release documents pertaining to its financial position. If passed, the university would have needed to produce these documents this week, but the motions were blocked by the Opposition and the Labor Party. Now this morning, Independent Senator David Pocock has said this is a political protection racket from the Labor Party and the Liberal Party. You might have heard Senator Katy Gallagher speak to my colleague on the Breakfast Program. Joining me now is Senator Paul Scarr, who is the Deputy Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate. Welcome to the Program.
Senator Scarr
Good to be with you.
Saskia Mabin
Would you like to respond to that criticism from Senator Pocock that there is a protection racket happening between the major parties and the ANU is that what’s going on here?
Senator Scarr
No, there is no protection racket. And I should say, of the greatest respect for Senator David Pocock and the work that he does and the passion he does it with. In this case, one of the things we were particularly concerned with was that during the committee hearings the other week, there was ventilation of an internal workplace dispute, and we were really concerned that the Senate committee is not the right forum for a individual workplace dispute to be ventilated.
Saskia Mabin
You’re speaking there about the former ANU council member, Liz Allen, making allegations about the council and specifically Julie Bishop. There is that what you’re referring to?
Senator Scarr
Correct. So we were quite concerned that that occurred in a public forum the way it occurred, and our great preference is that those sort of matters are dealt with appropriately, not in public. We think that’s the way to best ensure natural justice, and everyone has an opportunity to be heard, and the dispute can be resolved in due course. And that was one of the factors we took into account in responding to the request for orders for production of documents. We also considered the other forums and processes by which documents can be provided, including through budget estimates.
Saskia Mabin
Clearly watching Dr Allen’s testimony, it was a person who’d reached breaking point, Senator Scarr and I imagine there are lots of things happening behind the scenes with relation To those allegations, but, but seemingly, you know, airing those in a public space, for some people might might feel like the only solution, and that’s not something that you support?
Senator Scarr
Well, I think you you need to consider these things very carefully. And I’ve been involved since joining the Senate in 2019 in in very delicate matters. I was involved in chairing the inquiry in relation to the university response to sexual violence and gender violence on university campuses as an example. And there were times when we considered it really appropriate and fair to all the parties involved to take evidence in camera. That means the committee takes the evidence, but you do it in a way where it’s not public and where everyone has a reasonable opportunity to have their views put and we think in this case, our strong preference was that this matter would have been done in a different way. So that was really one of our major concerns with respect to David’s approach.
Saskia Mabin
Senator Pocock motion, though, wasn’t asking for documents pertaining to Dr Allen’s allegations. I guess there’s a sense from Senator Pocock and from many in the community linked to the ANU that there is a total lack of transparency from the University, and a lot of frustration has come from that. Do you agree that the university is failing in this regard?
Senator Scarr
I’m not really in a position to comment on that. To be frank, I think there are a number of processes which Senator Pocock can avail himself of in relation to getting access to documents, including through the budget estimates process, and Senator Gallagher, as you mentioned, appeared on your program or on the ABC earlier today, with respect to some other processes which are being undertaken. But I just want to emphasize this was from the Coalition’s perspective, simply looking at the situation and deciding whether or not this was an appropriate way to use the order for production process, so no protection racket, far from it.
Saskia Mabin
There is a feeling, though, that these processes, many of which Senator Gallagher referred to as well, that are happening to investigate the ANU and to look at the Renew ANU Proposals are perhaps not effective, or people are feeling as though the issue is just being sort of pushed along the line and swept under the carpet or handed over to someone else for responsibility. And I guess a lot of people want to see something being done, Senator Scarr, is that something that you have confidence in, that the process is underway, are achieving what the public wants to see. You know, action, transparency, a little bit more knowledge about what’s happening behind closed doors at the ANU?
Senator Scarr
I think at the end of the day, we’re all accountable in terms of how we use the processes the Senate has available, and whether or not other pathways to consider what’s happening at the ANU, and the utilization of budget estimates and other forums are adequate in order to ventilate the issues that are concerning people. So I recognize the concern in the community, and ultimately, it’s an iterative process. This was the decision that was made yesterday in relation to Senator Pocock’s request for orders for production of documents. But there are other processes available, and I expect David, knowing him as I do and respecting him as I do, I’m sure he’ll use whatever avenues are available to keep everyone accountable.
Saskia Mabin
Senator Paul Scarr, thank you so much for your time this morning.
Senator Scarr
Thank you very much.
