The fallout from Jacinta Nampijinpa Price’s controversial remarks still there, and it wasn’t a great by-election result in Kiama for the Coalition. But at the same time, you know, there’s, you know, broad challenges, and you can talk about everything else, if you like, but social cohesion, community tension that we’re all seeing, cost of living pressure that’s still there, shaping the national debate in the corridors of Canberra. But are they getting it? Let’s welcome the Shadow Minister for Immigration who joins us at this time every Monday for a chat. We call it Canberra Conversations. Senator Paul Scarr, Good Morning to you.
Senator Scarr
Good Morning Tim to you and your listeners, glad to be with you.
Tim Webster
Happy Monday.
Senator Scarr
Happy Monday, mate, and I’m sorry for your poor Roosters!
Tim Webster
Yeah. Well, you know, as I say, they made too many errors, but in the end, they weren’t supposed to even make the semis, so I was proud. It was great. Now, listen all of this that we can discuss with you, and an election still a long way off, but the latest polling has still got, you know, the Labor Party in front, even though they’ve dropped some support. Coalition’s dropped some, One Nation up, and support for the Greens and independents up, according to the polling. So we’re in a position where, you know, the Liberal Party in particular, and Kiama, the byelection probably brings it home. There has got a bit of soul searching to do Paul, surely?
Senator Scarr
Well, we need to be focused on what the main job is Tim, and the main job is to hold the Labor Government to account. And there’s a lot of things we can hold them accountable for. We previously discussed the issue of Immigration with you, and then we need to build a suite of policies to take to the next election, and in doing that, we need to be disciplined as a team.
Tim Webster
Now I mentioned this earlier, and let me know if you agree or disagree. They turned violent in the UK, their demonstrations. We’ve had them here. But really governments, and I know you do personally, but governments are going to have to start listening to people who are protesting about Immigration. I mean, you can, you know, write off the fruit loops on the left and the right, but in the middle, my listeners who attend some of these protests, that’s what their concern is. It’s been clouded, and unfortunately, Jacinta made the comments about Indian migrants, clouded by that. But in general, the people in this country, in the UK, in France, are trying to tell their government they’re opposed to so much Immigration, and it’s about time they listened.
Senator Scarr
I understand Tim, and as we’ve previously discussed in that first budget that the Labor Government brought down, it estimated that we’d have net overseas migration of 235,000, and the figure was over 500,000, and with cost of living, pressures on housing, pressures on infrastructure, there’s considerable concern in the community. So rates of Immigration at the moment are about 100,000 higher than they were before the COVID pandemic. So we need to adjust our policy settings, and we need to have a sustainable amount of immigration that gets the support of the Australian people. It’s fundamentally important.
Tim Webster
And also, as Shadow Minister for Multicultural Affairs, you’d have to be taking steps, and I’m sure you are, to ensure that migrant communities, not just, you know, the Indian community, but all of them, feel respected and represented and and valued for, for the contributions they make.
Senator Scarr
Tim, over the weekend, I’ve attended events with our wonderful Indian community, but also the Chinese Australian community, with our Filipino community, with our Burmese community, with our PNG community, and even our Polish community. So absolutely every day, I’m out there in the community, as my colleagues are making sure that our different communities know that they belong in Australia.
Tim Webster
Of course they do. I mean, you get people who object to the fact that, you know we’re multicultural, but we just are. And I even got an email from a bloke having a crack at me for calling, for calling us an immigration country. Well, we’ve always been one, and always will be one, but it’s the balance. Paul, I think that a lot of Australians are concerned about the balance of it all.
Senator Scarr
And I understand that. And just talking about what multiculturalism is. For me, the starting principle is that we are all united under a set of common values. That’s the starting principle. So wherever you come from, we should all believe in our fundamental set of Australian values, which is rule of law, democracy, respecting the rights and liberties of everyone else, making sure everyone has a fair go. Those are the fundamental principles which should bind us as a country, and need to bind us as a country.
Tim Webster
Yeah, absolutely. And just get back to, you know, tolerance and respect. I think your average Australian hates what they’re seeing, the protesting in the streets, protesting on the bridge in Hyde Park and Belmore Park. And, you know, people can’t go to the parks and enjoy it. I mean, I said on Social Media, and I stick by it. I mean, it’s all very well to say that people have a right to protest, but people also have a right to enjoy their city. You know, Hyde Park and Belmore Park in the CBD of Sydney, are where people go with the kids. You know, have a little sleepy sit in the sun, read a book, and they’re hijacked every weekend by people flying flags and protesting. So, I mean, you know, rights have got to be respected, yes, but everybody’s rights, not just the right to protest, surely, in my view,
Senator Scarr
Tim, I did a Citizenship Ceremony yesterday, which is one of the great privileges you have as an elected member, and the pledge which the new citizens take, talk about reciprocal rights and responsibilities. And I think that’s important to note. And the point you make is well made. There are so many ways for us to engage in the democratic process without disrupting other people.
Tim Webster
Now just on this, and I’ve received it from Sussan Ley’s office. So a bit of reshuffling and women there, which is great to see. Claire Chandler, Melissa Price, in the Shadow Ministry now, and that’s good to see. I mean, it’s just a matter of getting people into your side of politics that people can relate to, surely.
Senator Scarr
Absolutely. And I think Claire Chandler has done an outstanding job since she came into the Parliament over six years ago, especially in the security space, foreign affairs, that issue with respect to Iranian foreign government interference, Claire has been at the forefront of that so I think she’s a really welcome addition to the team. And as a young, very talented, professional woman, I think she’ll contribute a great deal. Y
Tim Webster
Absolutely. And that needed to happen. And I noticed too, Angus Taylor, I think he’s completely right has just said, Look, Jacinta Nampijinpa Price has gone to the backbench for the time being, but he’s sure, and I’m sure and that she’ll make a positive contribution for many years to come, many years to come. So it’s the cut and thrust of politics, Paul, isn’t it?
Senator Scarr
It is, mate, it can be a roller coaster at times. And I agree. With respect to Jacinta, I was deputy chair of the no case on the referendum in relation to the voice, and I saw the impact that Jacinta had. So Jacinta is loved by millions and millions of Australians. There’s no doubt about that.
Tim Webster
No doubt about that at all. Just in general terms. I mean, when you look at what happened overseas, the demonstrations in the UK turned violent. They haven’t really here, well, I suppose, a bit in Melbourne, but you know, you’ve had the threat against that. Arundel Mosque on the Gold Coast, this terrible protesting and death in Nepal, the Gen Z protests against social media bans and corruption. We just seem to be in this idea that if we’ve got a problem, you know, we march in the streets and wave flags and yell through a loudspeaker, when do we get back to hopefully, a bit of cohesion at home with with everybody, our multicultural communities and ourselves. And I think it’s, you know, you’re in government, and, well, you’re not in government, but you’re in Opposition. You’ve got the Albanese Government. And I just wonder whether there’s enough being done to assure people that it’s just not the way. I honestly believe it’s just not the way Australians are, but they’re seeing it on their television screens, both here and overseas. And I don’t know how we do it, return to some sort of social cohesion.
Senator Scarr
Absolutely. Tim, and I’ve said repeatedly, we can’t let conflict overseas lead to division at home. We can’t let conflict overseas lead to division at home. We have a wonderful democratic system. There was a byelection in New South Wales over the weekend. People expressed their views. We respect the outcome, the peaceful transition of that seat, as there is in every election in our country and that’s a wonderful thing, and we need to treasure that and do everything that we can to promote that. And all political leaders from all sides of government, I think, have a real obligation to make sure that when we engage in discourse and discussion, we do it in a civil way. And you know, I can remember, Tim and some of your listeners might remember that going back to the 40s and 50s, one of the closest personal relationships in Australian Politics was between Sir Robert Gordon Menzies as leader of the Liberal Party and Ben Chifley, Leader of the Labor Party,.
Tim Webster
Absolutely.
Senator Scarr
They used to go and watch the cricket together, they used to walk to their hotel from Parliament at the end of each day. And I think we’ve got to discover that civility again, in terms of we have the clash of ideas, we have different approaches, we put our arguments, but we’re respectful and civil with each other. I think that is so important.
Tim Webster
Yeah, mate, and I can go back and certainly at the time, they weren’t mates, but even Gough Whitlam and Malcolm Fraser, who were diametrically opposed in 1975, they became quite friendly in later years and I mean, just proves the point that we can have tolerance respect if we we go back to old school values, dare I say it?
Senator Scarr
Well, they shouldn’t be old school. They should be modern day.
Tim Webster
Yeah, that’s right.
Senator Scarr
I think we need them now more than ever.
Tim Webster
Yeah, good on you. Always good fun to chat to you on a Monday. Thanks, mate. Talk to you next week.
