Tonight on The Nightline, we’re joined by Senator Paul Scarr, the Liberal National Senator for Queensland and Shadow Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs, as we always do on Friday evenings for Canberra Conversations, and we’re going to talk about the Trump-Albanese meeting, the Coalition’s development of energy and emissions policy, and also Tony Burke’s comments on migration planning that have stirred the debate. Oh, a big week. Hello Paul.
Senator Scarr
Hello! Absolutely. Every week’s a big week, isn’t it?
Cheralyn Darcey
I keep saying that. Very, very busy. Well, look, Senator, thanks for joining us, and let’s begin with that Trump-Albanese meeting. It’s got everyone talking. It’s been called constructive and positive, but you’ve said Australians will judge it by its outcomes, not the photo opportunities. What was missing?
Senator Scarr
Well, I think we do have to see what outcomes flow from the meeting in the long term. So I think that is very important, and at the outset, I’d say it’s a great thing. It’s a great thing for Australia that we’ve had this meeting. We’ve been talking about it for a number of weeks, the fact that Prime Minister Albanese and President Trump didn’t have the opportunity to have that sit down meeting. Now they’ve had that meeting. There was positive reinforcement of the AUKUS treaty, and we’ve spoken about the importance of the AUKUS treaty, so that’s a big tick. As someone who comes from the mining industry, I was really pleased in relation to the agreement reached in relation to critical minerals, because that is a real advantage Australia has in terms of our mineral deposits, and it’s a great blessing the country has, and the United States needs access to those critical minerals. That’s a big tick. The only thing I think that was missing was we didn’t get the accommodation. It would have been good to have gotten in relation to tariffs on things like, for example, our steel exports. So the United Kingdom got a special dispensation from President Trump, and Australia hasn’t received that. So that’s probably the one negative. But overall, I think it’s a good thing that the meeting occurred, and it was really pleasing to see that positive reinforcement of AUKUS and the critical mineral strategy.
Cheralyn Darcey
Okay, you’ve also raised concerns about Kevin Rudd’s position as ambassador to the US, suggesting he’s putting unnecessary strain on the relationship. Why do you believe his role has become such a liability, Paul.
Senator Scarr
Gee, it was awkward wasn’t it? Your listeners probably all saw the footage of the President raising Kevin Rudd’s previous comments and I guess this was a time of reckoning. These comments that Kevin Rudd had made in the past in relation to President Trump, which were pretty negative comments, they were always going to be an issue and I think we saw the proof in the pudding in that regard at the meeting this week. I must say, though, I tip my hat to President Trump, because he did seem to take it all in good humor and apparently, the Ambassador did apologize after the meeting, and President Trump accepted that apology. So it’s pretty gracious of President Trump.
Cheralyn Darcey
Still on Foreign Relations, the Coalition initiated AUKUS, and while you’ve welcomed its continuation, you’ve also questioned Labor’s effectiveness on issues like tariffs and the QUAD. Do you think Australia’s influence with Washington has weakened under this Government?
Senator Scarr
Well, there was a real concern before we had that meeting that occurred this week. So I think that meeting does alleviate some of those concerns, but I think, like any relationship, you’ve got to put the time and effort into it and I’d really like to see Prime Minister Albanese and President Trump catch up on a far more regular basis and deepen that relationship and hopefully President Trump comes and visits Australia.
Cheralyn Darcey
Yeah, that would be good, wouldn’t it? Yes, I’d like to see more of this. I think a lot of us would – just that strengthening. I think it would make people feel a lot more comfortable when we’re discussing these things going into the future.
Senator Scarr
They’re our they’re our most trusted ally. Every conflict Australia has been involved in since our independence as a country, the United States, has been on our side. We’ve been on the side of the United States. So I think, I think we just want to see that relationship deepened, and nothing beats that person to person interaction.
Cheralyn Darcey
Let’s turn to Energy and Emissions. The Coalition has just formed the new working group to shape policy in this space, and it’s always had a lot of people talking on The Nightline. Let me tell you, Senator. We’re all waiting. We’re waiting with baited breathe I tell you.
Senator Scarr
I think they’re talking on The Nightline, and they’re also sending me emails!
Cheralyn Darcey
What are some of the key principles guiding that plan, and how will it differ from Labor’s approach? Can you let us know anything yet?
Senator Scarr
The two fundamental principles that is guiding our inquiries into this issue are, first, we’ve got to have a stable, reliable energy grid, which provides affordable power, and that’s affordable power for your listeners, and it’s also affordable power for our small businesses and large businesses. So that has got to be the fundamental principle and at the same time, we’d all like to see emissions come down in a responsible way, but we’ve got to make sure we’ve got that reliable energy grid and affordable power. So that affordable power is really, it’s the North Star, if I can put it that way, in terms of our policy deliberations and we’ll be having meetings in Canberra next week, so Parliament’s back next week and there will be meetings where there’s an opportunity for all the back benchers, for all the Senators, Shadow Ministers, everyone to have their say. So I do recommend to your listeners, if you want to take the opportunity before those meetings next week, reach out to your local MP, reach out to your local Senator and give them your views and your perspective.
Cheralyn Darcey
You know who’s going to be standing almost on the door when you come out of that meeting? It’s going to be me!
Senator Scarr
it’s going to be our regular weekly catch up straight after that meeting.
Cheralyn Darcey
You’ve also been critical of Labor for focusing on symbolism over science and engineering in emissions policy. What does a real world solution to energy, reliability and affordability look like under a Coalition Government?
Senator Scarr
Well, I think we need to be realistic. We need to be practical and deploy common sense and the fact of the matter is, and we’ve spoken about this previously on your show and with your listeners – we are the only country in the Top 20 economies in the world that doesn’t have nuclear power. So every other country except Australia, in the Top 20 economies in the world has nuclear power. So from my perspective, we need to remove that moratorium on nuclear power. The technology is improving all the time. You have modular reactors being developed. Companies like Rolls Royce, which is at the forefront of engineering, are out there developing new technology all the time. Some of our major trading partners, including South Korea, the United States, are developing new technology. So we’ve got to be open minded about that. From my perspective, I just in the short term, I think it’s irresponsible simply to rely upon renewables, because we know the sun doesn’t shine 24 hours a day, the winds won’t turn those turbines 24 hours a day. We need to have gas in the system to support the system and I think in a longer term, from my perspective, we need to be very open minded about nuclear power, and I just wish people would stop running scare campaigns as well with respect to nuclear power, because the technology really has moved on, and it’s getting better and better every da and if we’re going to have nuclear powered submarines, as we are under the AUKUS treaty, and we’re going to have those nuclear reactors in our ports all over Australia powering our submarines. Why can’t we have nuclear power to generate electricity for the Australian people and Australian businesses?
Cheralyn Darcey
Correct. So we can move forward. This is it. You’ve won me over. I’m in. one in. Let’s shift it a little bit, right into your ballpark, into Migration. Tony Burke’s comments on the Insiders stirred up debate about Immigration Planning. You said his defense was woeful. What’s your biggest concern about Labor abandoning multi year migration planning, and what would the Coalition do differently, Senator?
Senator Scarr
This really came out of Senate Estimates, and I’d noticed that in a lot of the documents the Government prepared, they’d been a change in terminology. So they’d been saying that they were going to engage in multi year planning. So what that means is they were going to announce an immigration figure for, say, this year, but also announce the figures for the next two years on a nominal basis, right? So look at our medium and longer term requirements, and then all of a sudden, those references to multi year planning just disappeared, disappeared from the budget, disappeared from the corporate plan of the Department of Home Affairs, just disappeared in a puff of smoke. So I asked questions about that. We didn’t get appropriate explanations, and I don’t blame the public servants in this regard. The Minister’s got to lead and then the Minister came out Sunday and said, well, I’m not going to have multi year planning, because I need to be flexible. I need to be flexible. Now, your listeners will know – in our lives, we plan all the time. In small businesses, we engage in long term planning, in big businesses. The government needs to engage in long term planning to provide housing, to provide infrastructure, to provide services. How do you do that without a long term planning? So it was really disappointing from my perspective, to hear the Minister admit that this is just a year to year proposition where they’re looking at the figures and want to be flexible. I do not believe that’s the right pathway. I think we need to have this discussion, and we need to have appropriate long term planning, and I think the Australian people expect that.
Cheralyn Darcey
Well, finally, Senator, the Coalition is talking about personal income tax cuts and restoring fiscal discipline. Can you give us a bit of a sense of how your party plans to balance economic relief for Australians with responsible budgeting?
Senator Scarr
Well, Sussan Ley gave a very, very important speech as Opposition Leader and basically returned to first principles and our fundamental values as a Liberal Party, and that means we need to have budget discipline. The Government can’t go around spending money like a drunken sailor, because it has a negative impact on inflation and it’s incurring debt on future generations. Second, we need to reward effort, and we need to encourage enterprises and I was just in Melbourne yesterday, actually speaking to a small business restaurant owner, and he was telling me how tough the current environment is. We need to make that restaurant owner’s life easier, not harder. We need to make it easier for them to employ people. We need to make it easier for them to make a profit. We also need to keep the Government focused on what it should be focused on, and that is basic service delivery, our defense, Foreign Affairs. The Government should really be focused on those things and not be spending money on things outside of those basic obligations of Government. We also need to be focused on what Sussan Ley referred to as intergenerational fairness. I think it’s a fundamental principle that, and certainly something I reflect on. I think each of us have an obligation to leave Australia in a better place then in which we found it. So, we need to make our contribution and make it easier, not harder, for the next generation and the generations after that. I think one of the issues in relation to that is not incurring huge amounts of debt today, which future generations, our children and grandchildren have to pay off in the future, and that’s just irresponsible. So I think we’ve got to return to those basic principles.
Cheralyn Darcey
Senator, thanks for the conversation.
Senator Scarr
Excellent. Have a great weekend everyone.
