Tonight, on The Nightline, as we are every Friday, we are joined by Senator Paul Scarr, Liberal National Senator for Queensland, and the Shadow Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs. There are four main issues on the table. The Opposition’s new direction on Energy and Net Zero, the looming under 16’s Social Media Ban, and there’s a lot of confusion around it. I hope we can iron some of that out, and the surprise visit to Canberra by the President of Nauru. These concerns are on the table, and Australia’s defence spending. Senator Paul Scarr joins us now for Canberra Conversations. Hello Senator.
Senator Scarr
Great to be with you and wonderful to be with your listeners for my favorite time of the week.
Cheralyn Darcey
We love it, and I tell you what Senator, it has been a busy one for Canberra. This week has seen a major change in your party’s position on climate policy. Where are we up to?
Senator Scarr
We had a really good number of meetings this week. The Liberal Party got together – all the members, all the Senators representing communities right across Australia. We all got together on Wednesday, shared our views with respect to energy policy, emissions reduction and of course those power bills which all your listeners are struggling to pay every month. So, we had that discussion on Wednesday. On the Thursday, the Liberal Shadow Ministry got together, sat around the table and came up with the position, which we will be discussing with our friends in the National Party over the course the next day or so, and then the two parties will come together on Sunday, and that should then result in the Coalition’s policy with respect to energy costs and emissions reduction. So, we made really good progress over the course of the last few days, and over the next few days, we’ll settle that position with our Coalition friends and then give the people of Australia a real choice as we move into the next election.
Cheralyn Darcey
Should we be expecting an announcement, hopefully by Monday?
Senator Scarr
There’ll be an announcement being made shortly after that joint party meeting, especially given the response which I’ve seen from members of the National Party to the Liberal Party position, which was finalized over the last few days. So importantly for your listeners, the focus will be on affordable power. It will be technologically neutral. It doesn’t matter where it comes from, but it will be affordable power to help families and businesses meet their costs and continue to do what they need to do, to provide for their families and to run their businesses. So, the focus of the policy is affordable power, and doing what we can, doing our fair share with respect to meeting environmental concerns around climate change and reducing emissions. So, I think listeners will see a real distinction between the policy position of the Coalition and the position of the Labor Party as we go to the next election.
Cheralyn Darcey
Senator, you just mentioned this technological neutral approach, and that will include gas, hydro, coal and lifting the ban on nuclear. What would it look like in practice?
Senator Scarr
It will include all those things. So, with respect to coal fired power stations, we need that coal fired power station provide baseload power into the energy grid. So, that must be part of the mix, and that’s the responsible and practical fact of the matter. We’ve spoken about this before, we need to have nuclear power. Nineteen out of twenty of the biggest economies in the world have nuclear power. Australia is the only one that doesn’t. We’re going to have nuclear powered submarines, so it doesn’t make any sense to me that we’ll have nuclear powered submarines in ports all around Australia, but we’re not using nuclear power for energy production. So, I think nuclear needs to be part of the mix and gas. So, really what we’re saying is, let’s provide the market with the opportunity to bring forward all these types of energy so that we can drive those energy prices down for consumers and businesses.
Cheralyn Darcey
Critics are saying that lifting the nuclear ban is unrealistic in Australia. What do you have to say to them?
Senator Scarr
Well, it’s only unrealistic to the extent that people get on the road and stop the nuclear ban from being lifted. The fact of the matter is, if a majority of members of the House of Representatives, and a majority of members of the Senate agree to lift the ban, like I think they should do, then the ban will be lifted. I think it’s up to all of us to make the arguments which I’ve just made to you and your listeners, with respect to nuclear power. The other point I would make is this technology is improving every single day. Every single day technology is improving. So, we’re going down the direction of modular nuclear generating units around the world. This drives down costs. So, let’s be open minded about it, and bear in mind that Australia has the world’s largest uranium reserves in the world. So, it doesn’t make any sense to me that would be exporting that uranium for use all around the world but not using it at home. It also makes environmental sense to me as well in terms of reducing emissions. So, I think we’ve got to have an argument. We’ve got to be prepared that opponents to nuclear energy will use the scary campaigns, the three-eyed fish and all this nonsense. But the world is moving on, and I think we’ve got to move with it.
Cheralyn Darcey
Let’s move into this Under 16 Social Media Ban. On December 10, the Social Media Age Minimum takes effect, and yet there is still no clarity on age verification. Why do you believe the government is failing in this rollout?
Senator Scarr
This has been the policy for a year now. Families and young people are being given absolutely no guidance with respect to key details of this policy. There’s no explanation of how age verification will work. There’s no guidance as to whether Digital ID would be required, or even which platforms are covered. So, I think the government has really failed to run a proper education campaign in this regard.
Cheralyn Darcey
What do you say to families who still have no idea how this ban will work?
Senator Scarr
I would say keep your eye open in terms of whatever is announced by the government over the next few weeks, because they are going to have to provide more details. Internet service providers are also going to have to provide more details. So, I think you’re going to have to watch this very closely. But it really is unsatisfactory that we’re having this conversation only a month or so before this ban takes effect. I mean, we’ve got to do things better than this. The Australian people expect a higher standard.
Cheralyn Darcey
Yes, and it’s not just young people, because we’ve also heard that obviously adults may have to now show some sort of ID to use social media, because how are they going to draw that line.
Senator Scarr
That’s another sensible question. I always get sensible questions from you, but it makes sense, doesn’t it? This doesn’t just impact young people, it impacts everyone. Because the question you ask is an obvious one, and we still really don’t have definitive answers with respect to that.
Cheralyn Darcey
Senator, you raised concerned about this surprise visit to Canberra by the President of Nauru. Why is this so unusual?
Senator Scarr
Usually when we get a visit from a Head of State, especially from one of our closest pacific neighbors, or from our pacific family, there’s usually prior notice, proper diplomatic protocols, and such visits are announced to Parliament, or the media, the public. There are questions with respect to, what was the purpose of this visit, what was discussed, and what are the ramifications? This needs to be in the considered in the context that Australia does operate an offshore detention scheme in Nauru with respect to people who attempt to come to Australia by boat. You and your listeners all remember the issues we’ve had in the past in that regard. So, Nauru plays a key strategic role in terms of managing those issues. So, it is deeply concerning that we have this unannounced visit from the President of Nauru, and the government has a lot of questions to answer in relation to this.
Cheralyn Darcey
What are the national security implications if this visit signals trouble with the agreement?
Senator Scarr
I would prefer not to speculate, because we just don’t know what the substance of the visit is. But the government has recently entered into a 30-year agreement with Nauru. A multi-billion dollar agreement to resettle members of the NZYQ cohort, who are those people who’ve committed criminal offenses in this country who can’t be deported to their country of origin for whatever reason, given the circumstances in their country of origin, and a long term agreement was entered into with Nauru in order to provide a means by which those people could be deported from Australia. So, the question is whether this visit has anything to do with those arrangements, but we don’t know. There’s a vacuum of information and the Australian people deserve better.
Cheralyn Darcey
The Outgoing RSL President has warned that Australia is not spending enough on defence in a dangerous global environment. Do you agree with that?
Senator Scarr
The fundamental, core obligation of the Federal Government is to provide defence of the country. That is absolutely core business of any federal government. Now, current spending is running at just over 2% of gross domestic product. The Coalition believes it needs to move up to that 3% figure as quickly as possible, because of the challenges we have in our region. We also have the capital obligations to acquire those AUKUS nuclear powered submarines, which are vital. We want to make sure while our Air Force, our Army, they get the financial support that they need. So, we really do believe defence spending needs to be increased as soon as possible.
Cheralyn Darcey
How confident are you that the Australian Defence Force is ready for the strategic challenges ahead as it stands now?
Senator Scarr
I have absolute confidence in the people in our defence forces. I think the people I meet every day that work in our defence forces, they are just outstanding, and I have so much respect and regard for them, but I think we need to make sure that the government gives them the support, gives them the tools to do their job the way they need to be prepared to do their job. So, I think that’s the fundamental point that we’re making. So, I have absolute confidence in the members of Australia’s Defence Forces, but the Government needs to do more to give them the tools to do their job, to defend our beautiful country.
Cheralyn Darcey
Senator, thank you so much for Canberra Conversations this week, and good luck with all the meetings this weekend.
Senator Scarr
Excellent. Thank you very much.
