This week has been a big one in politics. Joining me tonight is Senator Paul Scarr, Shadow Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs, and Senator for Queensland. He has spoken openly about the need for unity inside the Liberal Party, but also about the bigger picture. How we keep our diverse, multicultural nation safe, strong and together. So let’s ask the questions that matter. What kind of leadership are we seeing? How do we protect unity in this time of division, and where do we go from here? Senator, welcome.
Senator Scarr
Hello, good to be with you and your listeners again, my favorite time of the week.
Cheralyn Darcey
We love it. It’s good way to wrap it up, isn’t it? Well, while we’re wrapping it up, but let’s start though. Let’s start with leadership. Australians have been watching the Liberal Party very closely this week. When your shadow cabinet loses a member, especially in such a public way, people are naturally going to ask, what is going on?
Senator Scarr
Well, I think people have a right to ask those questions. And I think, from my perspective, the preference would be that we focus the attention on the government, holding the government to account and developing policies to take to the next election.
Cheralyn Darcey
Was the movement of Jacinta Price to the backbench more about discipline, about values, or about sending a signal to multicultural Australia.
Senator Scarr
I think, Sussan Ley’s statement, which she put out when she took the action regarding Jacinta’s de-motion, referred to two things. The first point is, and your listeners will be aware of it, that there’s a concept called cabinet solidarity, which applies to both government and opposition, and it means, if you’re serving in a cabinet or in a shadow cabinet, then it’s important that you’re totally unified. You express confidence in your leader, and you basically take collective responsibility. So once Jacinta had made the comment she made in relation to not expressing confidence in Sussan’s leadership, that is really a trigger for your position becoming untenable in terms of continuing to serve in the shadow ministry. So that was one of the reasons why it was necessary for Jacinta to step back to the backbench. And then the second issue is the distress that has been caused in the Indian Australian community with respect to some of the remarks that were made last week. I note that Jacinta has acknowledged that those remarks were a mistake. She’s referred to a language as being clumsy, and she’s also spoken about her connection to our Indian Australian community, both through her family and through her time as Deputy Mayor of Alice Springs. But I think there was an expectation that there would be an apology to try and put that matter to rest. So I think Sussan acted on the basis of both of those issues.
Cheralyn Darcey
When voters do see division like this inside a party, they will lose confidence. How do you convince Australians that the Liberal Party is focused on their lives and not just internal fights?
Senator Scarr
Well, I think it’s important every single day that we’re engaging in the actions we need to to hold the government to account, criticizing where we have to criticize it, being positive where we can, but also coming up with a suite of policies to take to the next election. So that is really the fundamental obligation. I consider it a moral obligation of the opposition. It’s a key function in our democratic system, whoever’s serving in the opposition to hold the government to account and give the people of Australia a real choice at the next election. So that’s got to be our focus. And the events of the last week have been very, very unfortunate.
Cheralyn Darcey
Now let’s talk about multicultural engagement. Australia is one of the most diverse nations on Earth. We’re home to over 300 different cultural backgrounds, and our success as a nation does depend on how well we respect and integrate those communities. You’ve praised the Indian community as one of the fastest growing, most successful migrant groups. What do you think Australians need to know about their contribution?
Senator Scarr
Well, I think Australians see the contribution of our Indian Australian community every day, through the contribution they make, through work, through their small businesses, and in many cases, those are really strong small businesses based around the family and through engagement in the community and through cultural festivities, etc, a generosity of spirit where festivals like Diwali, which is coming up in the near future, are made accessible to all Australians, and the community offers all Australians to come and participate in those great festivals. And the one thing I really want to emphasize is in the work I do, again and again and again, I see members of the Indian Australian community reaching out to Australians in need. So when there were floods up in Cairns, the local Indian Australian community prepared meals for people who weren’t able to access hot meals. When there were bush fires, I saw, the Indian Australian community providing comfort and support to Australians in need, when there are natural disasters, again, you see Indian Australians reaching out to help their fellow Australians. And I really want to emphasize that point, that generosity of spirit that’s there in our Indian Australian community, which is a great blessing for our country.
Senator Scarr
What do you think real multicultural engagement should look like now in 2025?
Senator Scarr
Well, I think the first thing is we need to define what we mean by multiculturalism. And from my perspective, it doesn’t matter where you come from, it doesn’t matter what your religion is, what your ethnicity is, what your gender is, we all come together as Australians, united by common values, and that is our belief in a democratic system, our belief in a fair go, our belief that we should treat everyone equally no matter what their background, our respect for the rule of law, recognizing that with citizenship comes right, but also responsibilities and obligations, and those have to be the unifying values. So for me, that is the starting point. And then when you look under that, then we’ve got to endeavor and we’ve got to do this every day, and it’s for all of us to do this, to make sure that people from different backgrounds have the same opportunity as everyone else. So it’s about that concept of equality of opportunity, and that means removing barriers that might exist to prevent people from fulfilling their true potential, because it’s only through every single person in Australia fulfilling their true potential that Australia will fulfill its potential. And then the second thing is always being on the lookout for discrimination, for racism, for people not being treated with respect and civility. And lastly, celebrating the different cultural festivals and events and really enjoying that. And I think Diwali, in terms of the Indian Australians, is an example of that. And there’s the Chinese New Year, a heap of other festivals and activities where we can come together and enjoy each other’s culture. But that all sits under the basic umbrella of everyone in Australia being committed to and sharing the same fundamental values. And for me, that’s the starting point.
Cheralyn Darcey
It is a starting point. But our social fabric at the moment is under pressure. And you’ve said recently that the government has failed to keep our communities safe and united. What specifically does need to change? What does the government need to do at the moment?
Senator Scarr
Well, the government does need to show leadership in this respect and in terms of some of the issues that are occurring in the Middle East, which lead to passionate views on both sides of the debate, it’s really important that the government is seen as even handed in terms of how it engages in those issues. And I think it’s really important to step up and support any minority group in Australia that feels under attack or is subject to racist activity or discrimination or threats. It’s really important to stand behind. those communities.
Cheralyn Darcey
Also in the news this week, Senator, the assassination of Charlie Kirk in the US, people are asking how far political division can go. What responsibility do leaders here in Australia have to make sure our debates never cross this line into violence?
Senator Scarr
Our political leaders, our community leaders, have a responsibility, I think, in political discussion and discourse, to be respectful, to always make it about the issue, not the person. Always make it about the issue, not the person. I think this is broader than just our leaders and community leaders. All of us have this responsibility, and some of the material I see in social media, in terms of the way people express themselves, in terms of hatred and vitriol and abuse, it’s just beyond the pale, and I think we need to call that out, and we can’t tolerate it. We can’t tolerate it. It’s not acceptable. We need more civility in our life in my view. We need more kindness, we need more empathy, we need more understanding. There’s a lot of frustrations in the world, but I think when you’re in that sort of environment where you have those frustrations, it’s even more important to be civil, to be polite, to treat other people as you have them treat you. You know, we call it the golden rule. It’s pretty simple. And in fact, there’s a similar rule across nearly all religions, in terms of treating other people as you’d have them treat you. And I think that’s fundamental. I think especially in this world of social media, people being able to go online and simply just get one viewpoint, sometimes it’s extreme. A lot of our young people are particularly vulnerable to that radicalisation as well. ASIO has spoken about that and the Department of Home Affairs, and I’ve certainly seen evidence of that as particularly young people going down particular paths. We’ve all got to watch out for that and try and be as positive as we can. We’ve got a beautiful country. I don’t want us to go down that path of some of the things that we see in the United States, just a tragedy. what happened over there this week and to think this is someone who went onto a university campus, just have discussions with people.
Cheralyn Darcey
Senator, on a good note to leave it on. You are right – treat everybody as you’d expect to be treated yourself. It’s simple stuff. We learned it in kindergarten!
Senator Scarr
Good on you.
