Paul Scarr is our guest. Senator Paul Scarr is Shadow Immigration Minister and Shadow Minister for Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs. On the text line, Steve says, “I dare Albo to go to the SCG Cricket. He isn’t Bob Hawke. We’re treading a fine line here between the politics of it and of course, the rights and wrongs of the need for a Royal Commission. I will ask you this though, Paul. You can answer it any way you like. At what point does this become a lose proposition for Anthony Albanese, in the sense that if he digs his heels in and refuses to call a Royal Commission, how much will it damage him, and if he chooses to call a Royal Commission, how much damage has already been done?
Senator Scarr
That is a good question. I think the more time that goes by without him agreeing to convince a Royal Commission, the more damage he’s going to do himself, whatever happens. But again, from my perspective, it’s about just making sure the right thing is done in the national interest, and that means setting up that royal commission. So, I think he has suffered some damage, because he hasn’t made the decision that he would convince the Royal Commission. The sooner he changes his mind and admits that convening a Royal Commission is the right thing to do, I think it will be to his benefit. But again, from my perspective, this is about national interest, and it is in national interest that we have a Royal Commission. Most people who I’m speaking to every day are calling for a Royal Commission, and the view of the Australian people needs to be listened to.
Bill Woods
Meredith has an interesting point. Evening Bill she says. By not holding a Royal Commission, isn’t Albo just giving the demonstrators plus people wanting to do what those two did in Bondi leave to do something else, as there are no consequences. Well, I might quickly add Meredith, there are serious charges being laid against the surviving alleged shooter at Bondi, so there will be consequences for him. But interesting point Meredith makes. Regarding the demonstrators, she hasn’t mentioned others that might be complicit in antisemitism in Australia.
Senator Scarr
Well, I think one of the things the Royal Commission needs to look at, and hopefully there will be a Federal Royal Commission, is that explosion in anti semitism across the whole of Australia. This is one of the reasons we need a Federal Royal Commission. I was going back through some of my records in relation to issues of anti semitism that have been raised by members of the Jewish community in Queensland. The first speech I gave in parliament in 2024 was raising the concerns in relation to the explosion of anti semitism in my home state of Queensland, and we saw on Christmas Day, the Rabbi’s car being firebombed in Melbourne. This is an issue that crosses state borders. It’s impacting the whole of the Australian community, which is one of the reasons we need a Federal Royal Commission.
Bill Woods
Steve is on the line talking, I think about Albo’s leadership. G’day, Steve.
Caller
There is no leadership whatsoever. I watched an interview with Chris Minns, and he just basically said, Yep, okay. Things didn’t go very well in Bondi, but this will never happen again. He’s called a Royal Commission. You can go through legal, book work, but the Prime Minister will not do it. The point is, I don’t care if he admits that he’s made a mistake, and there might have been a piece of paper on his table that he didn’t get a chance to look at. I accept that, but the thing is, we never want this to happen again, and who knows. When it’s a synagogue, people turn a blind eye. Well, I don’t go to a synagogue, or I don’t go to a mosque, so it doesn’t really affect me. I go to church. But, the fact of the matter is, when it’s in open spaces, Houston, we’ve got problems. It needs to be addressed.
Bill Woods
Well said Steve. I think that’s a very pertinent point. As I said, we’ve been trying hard to be appropriate. I know you have, and many other speakers for the Opposition, and indeed, to be fair, some members of the Government as well, to not sound like it’s all about politics. To pay sufficient tribute to the victims of what happened and the levity of what happened. But Steve makes a point – the most important thing of all is making us safe – bottom line.
Senator Scarr
As Steve was speaking there, I just wrote down a phrase that he uses which was – “never want it to happen again”. When you when you consider the weight of that goal, that this never happen again in Australia, the issue around politics, the issue about whether or not the Prime Minister loses some face, because he changes his mind, it is all just so insignificant. We just want to do everything we can to make sure it never happens again.
Bill Woods
We’re talking to Paul Scarr. This is the News Hour. It’s half past eight, half past seven in Queensland. When we come back, we’ll have a chat about Sussan Ley’s leadership. We’ll also have a look at when the Federal Opposition might be dropping that Immigration Policy. They, quite rightly, out of deference to what happened in Bondi, held back the release. We’ll see if Paul Scarr can give us a date on that, and we’ll also have a look at the NDIS as well. Interesting article in news.com today about one Sydney suburb that had a high incidence of NDIS use, some of which you could be skeptical about. All that’s ahead of us.
Bill Woods
This is the News Hour with Senator Paul Scarr. Now, just a couple of texts Paul that have come in. Jack says, one of the main reasons the PM does not want a Federal Royal Commission is that he and some of his colleagues will be forced to answer questions in the witness box and not able to run away. They will look like absolute babbling boobies. Sounds like Doctor Smith from Lost in Space. This one from Sandra – Albo will lose more voters if he doesn’t call a Royal Commission, than if he does. Interesting point there. This one from Rachel who says, what about the role of the states in allowing horrendous protesters on our streets, including having taken the universities? How is that tolerated? That will be a big part, I’d imagine, of a Royal Commission if there is one.
Senator Scarr
Just that point, with respect to universities. From a Queensland context, we had issues, especially at the University of Queensland, in relation to anti semitism. I visited the University last year when there was an encampment which had been established on the universities, and I saw the impact on the Jewish students and staff at the University of Queensland. So, it’s an incredibly good point that your listener just made.
Bill Woods
I’ve talked about this ad nauseum, and this is your hour, not mine, Paul. But there are three basic angles. There may be more after the Royal Commission, I don’t know, but I see three. One, of course, is the obvious, and that is Islamic extremism, or anyone you know connected to the Middle East with ancestral connection, where, you know, there is a generational ranging from distrust to hatred of Israel, and therefore, by extension, Jewish people. Secondly, there is, for some reason, a left wing ideological hatred for Israel that has developed, and of course, that has, by extension, again, become antisemitic, and how that has been allowed to fester, I think, must be part of the examination of any investigation, whether it’s the royal commission or not.
Senator Scarr
In terms of Islamist extremism, we know from the briefings that have been given by the Australian Federal Police that the people who committed the alleged shooting, or one of them’ s alleged, they’re still alive, so we need to be careful in terms of our language. But certainly, the Australian Federal Police have said that there was inspiration from Islamic state with respect to their actions. So, that issue of Islamist extremism, Islamic state, the ability of Islamic State to use the internet to radicalize people, and we need to also look at the issue of the so-called hate preachers and what they’ve been saying in our country. The second aspect which you referred to there in terms of the attitude of the left, in terms of its hatred of Israel, that certainly is something which we see in the universities, but we also see in the creative sector, and we had that awful episode last year of members of the Jewish community involved in the arts, and that’s completely unacceptable. So, all these issues need to be carefully examined and examined through that lens which your Listener Steve raised, to make sure this never happens again. So, what do we need to do in terms of concrete actions to make sure this never happens again?
Bill Woods
The third one, which I neglected to mention is, of course, the Neo Nazis, which almost goes without saying, because they’ve been there for a long time. I don’t know where we sit with that, Paul. They have surfaced. There’s been a lot of concern about whether they’re becoming more popular or not, whether their strategies have changed. They use social media very effectively. But that must be part of the investigation as well.
Senator Scarr
Absolutely. That neo-Nazi extreme ideology. I know from inquiries which I’ve sat on in the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee in the Senate. There was disturbing evidence with respect to the age of people, in particular, young male teenagers, the age at which they’re radicalized. Quite often, they’re drawn into these groups. You might be talking about teenagers who’s having issues in their own life, and they’re looking for support, they’re looking for companionship, they’re looking for mate ship. A lot of these organizations are quite crafty in an evil sense, in terms of dragging people down into the rabbit hole. We must look at ways in which we can combat that and when it does occur, how do we radicalize young people in particular?
Bill Woods
Now, I must ask you. You can answer this any way you like. You are close to Sussan Ley. You’re from the same moderate faction of the Liberal Party. Do you reckon her leadership will survive? We’re still some way off to another election. This is a hard road for her.
Senator Scarr
I think Sussan has demonstrated great leadership over the last month, and I’ve seen that firsthand. I’ve seen how much it meant to the Jewish community in Sydney, at Bondi, the fact that she put her heart and soul into supporting the community at its most difficult time. I come back to that clip, which you played for your listeners. What’s driving that is, is what Sussan has heard on the ground from members of the Jewish community, and I think while Sussan is giving that strong voice, articulating their concerns, calling faction, doing every single thing an Opposition Leader should be doing in terms of holding the government to account, then, from my perspective, Sussan’s doing a great job.
Bill Woods
Well, as they say in the classics, a big part of the job is listening in politics.
Senator Scarr
Absolutely, I think it’s listening and then giving voice to what you’re hearing, and I think Sussan’s doing all that much more.
Bill Woods
It was a tough initiation for her, though. She was accused quite strongly, particularly the conservative side of the Coalition of not getting wheels spinning and getting any traction fast enough. Your thoughts on that?
Senator Scarr
I think being Opposition Leader is the hardest job in politics. It is difficult, and with the Coalition to be frank, we suffered a terrible loss earlier in the year. We lost a lot of good members and senators and Sussan had the goal and the obligation to pick up the pieces and hold the government to account and start that process of formulating policies for the next election and to listen to people. I think a lot has been achieved. I think the Coalition has now settled its policy with respect to climate change, and that was an area which required a lot of discussion between colleagues. We know all behind the position that’s been come to, and we’ve been working in relation to the Immigration policy area as well, and a whole raft of other policy areas.
Bill Woods
You’ve certainly satisfied several of the conservatives, both in the National and Liberal parties with that. However, how are you going to convert that to votes in electorates where you’ve got Teal domination in a lot of seats, which obviously costs some Liberal members their seats, and this broader sentiment that of course, got the Labor Party into power – you have got to sell it.
Senator Scarr
There’s no question about that. I think what we’re seeing in terms of the rollout of the Government’s renewables only strategy, we’re seeing costs of electricity keep going up. We’re seeing how unrealistic some of the goals set by this Government have been in terms of achieving those goals, in terms of bringing down emissions, electricity prices keep going up. We are seeing big manufacturing companies, big smelters and refineries talking about the need to close shop in Australia and move offshore. So, I think all those issues as they develop are going to put more pressure on the Labor Government and demonstrate that the policy position that the Coalition has adopted is the right one.
Bill Woods
A quick text from Sharon who says, please tell me why the Australian Government has commented on the protests in Iran and condemned the government there. Why doesn’t our Government just stay in their own lane and worry about Australia, not Iran? That’s from Sharon. Look, I won’t answer Paul Scarr, but I think there’s an interesting debate unfolding in that realm. Paul, your thoughts?
Senator Scarr
There is an interesting debate unfolding in Iran, and I think we need to be cognizant of the fact that the firebombing of the synagogue in Melbourne was linked to the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps of Iran, and Iran has been a destabilizing force across the whole world under the current regime. So, it is a matter of concern to the Australian people, and we know the support which the Iranian Government has given to terrorist organizations across the world. So, it is an issue which I think is appropriate that the federal government do make some comment. At the same time, I also appreciate the frustration that we’re looking for more action in terms of what’s happened in Bondi, and that includes the convening of a royal commission. I understand the sentiment.
Bill Woods
Look, my two bob’s worth is, it would have been nice in any of those demonstrations we’ve seen in the last two and a half years, in particular, the so called ‘March for Humanity’, that anybody in any of those demonstrations mentioned the poor people of Iran, particularly the women of Iran. It’s incredulous and hypocritical that they, and many, many other people who are victims of oppression around the world, were not mentioned in the so-called ‘March for Humanity’. That is part of the problem.
Senator Scarr
It is part of the problem. We have a community in in Queensland, and I’ve met with members of communities in Adelaide in particular, who came to this country had to flee the regime in Iran and they believe in freedom. They believe in the rights of women, and many of them are wonderful women had been targeted by that Iranian regime, but we didn’t see many marches in their name on our streets, and that’s a good question you ask.
Bill Woods
We’re talking to Paul Scarr, Shadow Minister for Immigration and Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs. When we come back, we will have a look at when that Immigration Policy from the Opposition might drop. Paul, would you believe we were about to turn the topic to immigration. We don’t have a huge amount of time left. I wanted to ask you about when the policy will drop. But before we do, I’ve just been handed the front page of the Saturday Age, which reads Hastie & Price Ad Blitz to target Immigration. It says Liberal backbencher Andrew Hastie has crowdfunded $260,000 to launch his own multimedia advertising blitz on Immigration in the New Year, promising a relentless ad campaign to force the issue onto the national agenda as the Coalition fine tunes its policies after the Bondi Attack. Is he going rogue, Paul, or is this a little change in tactic?
Senator Scarr
Well, Andrew feels very strongly about the issue, and he’s raised his concerns in relation to the issue quite consistently since the last election, and he’s got every right to advocate his position however he wishes to do so. So, I acknowledge the strength of his views in this regard, and he has every single right to do what he’s doing.
Bill Woods
Now, you and I were to talk about this Immigration Policy. Sadly, it was the day after the attack on Bondi, and you obviously had a lot of other things to talk about, and I was pleased that you were still able to join us, but given that the Immigration Policy release was put on hold, have you got a timeline for that? Can you tell us when it’s coming?
Senator Scarr
I can’t tell you exactly when it’s coming, but obviously, as you noted after the Bondi Tragedy, the focus moved to the immediate response to that tragedy, and Sussan continues to advocate in that regard. We’ll be having a discussion over the next week or so in relation to the timing and in relation to the broader immigration issues. But I also want to make this point – as part of our response, there are three measures which we flagged that need to be introduced as a matter of urgency. The first is increased screening and vetting of visa applicants, applicants for temporary or permanent visas, to make sure that we’re finding people, at the first hurdle, who had antisemitic views or associated with antisemitic organisations, to make sure they never even get a Visa to come into our country. Second, to strengthen the Migration Act, with respect to processes to cancel visas in relation to people engaging in hate speech. We’ve talked about those creatures of hate, and we need to have stronger processes in that regard to cancel Visas. The third aspect is increasing the powers of the Australian Government to cancel Citizenship, revoke Citizenship, where someone has Dual Citizenship, so where they’re a citizen of Australia but also a citizen of another country, and they’ve engaged in that sort of antisemitic behavior – we want the ability to take away their Australian Citizenship if they’re also a citizen of another country.
Bill Woods
Obviously, those issues are tied in with the broader picture of Immigration, and we understand that. Bu, there are many other issues relating to Immigration. The simple numbers, regardless of where you come from and what your attitudes are – there’s a housing issue, and that is just straight-out math’s. But, Paul, how much have you had to modify all that because of Bondi?
Senator Scarr
It’s not a question of modifying. A lot of the issues, including the issues I just mentioned, these were topics that were the subject of discussion internally in relation to making sure that we have an Immigration Policy which is in our national interest, and which has the support of the Australian people. You need to have both – you need to have a policy which is in the national interest, but it’s got to have the support of the Australian people. There’s no question that most of the Australian people are rightly concerned, that our current rate of immigration is too high. So, the last figures we had for the last full financial year, Net Overseas Migration, were 306,000 for the year. Whilst it has come down over the last few years, that’s still 90,000 over the 10-year average prior to the Covid 19 Pandemic. So, that figure needs to come down, and the issues that we’ve got to take into account in terms of our immigration policy, include that housing supply issue, and the demand on housing includes the ability of our infrastructure to meet that demand that we’re seeing every day on the roads, and also government services to provide services to the people at the level that they reasonably expect.
Bill Woods
We’ve only got about two and a half minutes left Paul, but Rodney has put up a couple of texts here saying Sussan Ley will survive the leadership of the Liberal Party. My prediction is that Albanese will resign once interest rates go up and the pressure of Bondi in coming months. But he also says unemployment will go up in 2026 and that the economy is not in good shape now. National security, the safety of our citizens, and Immigration are particularly important issues. But as Rodney says whether he is correct in his forecast, he’s not alone. Plenty of people are saying what he just said. The economy is still a massive issue, and I take it as the Opposition will be gearing up for that in 2026 as well.
Senator Scarr
Absolutely and speaking to members of the community over the Christmas period, there are so many Australian families under so much financial pressure. One of the food banks I’ve got a close relationship with that’s close to my office, they give out the Christmas Hampers and try and help people in the lead up to Christmas. They’re seeing people who they’ve never seen before. Because inflation is so high, we are looking at interest rate increases in the new year. So, cost of living is still a huge issue out there and probably the major issue facing families on a day-to-day level.
Bill Woods
Paul Scarr, thank you very much, mate. I’m sure you agree that hour have gone by very, very quickly indeed. Thanks everyone for contributing. If you want to keep texting about these issues, happy to air those views as the show goes on, but right now, we say goodbye and thank you to Senator Paul Scarr, and we’ll catch up again soon, mate.
Senator Scarr
Yes. I hope so, Bill. Thanks to all your listeners for engaging. I’ve been listening very carefully, and I really appreciate all their comments and texts during our chat.
