Quite a conversation ahead of us with Senator Paul Scarr, the Opposition Immigration Spokesman. A regular commentator with John Stanley on his Nights program. Paul, thanks for joining us again.
Senator Scarr
Thanks Bill, and I can’t beat that song. What a terrific introduction!
Bill Woods
You wrote an article today for The Australian. We’ll start there before moving to a few other issues. The number of failed asylum seekers and international graduates trying to stay here has apparently gone through the roof.
Senator Scarr
It has, Bill, and it’s a major issue. When we talk about Net Overseas Migration, you have to look at both arrivals and departures. People on temporary visas are expected to leave once their visas expire. Since the pandemic, they simply haven’t been leaving at the same rate, and that’s creating significant problems. The Centre for Population in Treasury is flagging issues in forecasting population growth. The ABS has reported a 15% drop in departure rates. And now we have two categories that are really blowing out. The first is student visa appeals. These are people who were here on a student visa, applied for another, were rejected, and then appealed to the Administrative Review Tribunal. While appealing, they receive a Bridging Visa allowing them to work and stay here. That’s manageable, until the system becomes overloaded. There are now 46,000 people going through that process. Two and a half years ago, it was 2,500. It’s grown from 3% of the AAT’s caseload to 38%.
Bill Woods
While that’s happening, more people are trying to come into study and work.
Senator Scarr
Exactly. The second category is onshore protection claims made by people who originally arrived on another visa, often a Student Visa, and then apply for asylum.
These aren’t refugees fleeing war zones overseas. These are people who were already here on a temporary visa and then made an onshore protection claim. The number of people who’ve been rejected by Home Affairs, are now appealing, in court, or have exhausted all avenues but remain in the country is now over 100,000. Five years ago, it was 55,000. And we have people applying from countries like the United Kingdom.
Bill Woods
How does that work? Are they personal circumstances?
Senator Scarr
Anyone is entitled to lodge a claim, and the Department must consider it. But when someone claims persecution in a country like the UK, a country that gave us many of our democratic institutions, it’s hard to see how it has merit. So, the Department rejects it. Then they appeal. And those appeals are taking years. While they appeal, they remain here. The system isn’t sustainable. We need to efficiently process genuine asylum seekers while dealing firmly with applications that are simply attempts to extend a stay in Australia.
Bill Woods
As you say, the ART backlog is huge. How would you unclog it?
Senator Scarr
Several steps are needed. First, focus on the 20,000 people who’ve exhausted all appeal rights and have no bridging visas or pathways remaining, but haven’t departed. We need to ensure they leave the country in an orderly fashion. Second, we need far better triaging of appeals, particularly from countries where the chance of success is effectively zero, countries like the UK, the US, Taiwan, South Korea, Samoa, Tonga. Success rates are under one percent. These should be processed very quickly. Once you’ve been knocked back by Home Affairs, your chance of success on appeal is under ten percent. So, of the 100,000 cases, around 10,000 might succeed. That means 90,000 won’t. We need to identify and finalise those cases quickly and get them out of the system.
Bill Woods
So this is a numbers issue, not a discriminatory one. Is it part of your broader migration policy? Can you give us a timeframe?
Senator Scarr
These issues are absolutely on the policy radar. But since the terrible events at Bondi on 14 December, our immediate focus has been on that response. The government released a massive bill this week, and that has demanded our full attention heading into Parliament. I’ll be speaking with the Opposition Leader about timing when we return to Canberra.
Bill Woods
Listeners are texting in support of your position. Sharon points out that people whose visas have expired should be required to leave and reapply, rather than gaming the system. She links it to the housing crisis, which is understandable.
Senator Scarr
Exactly. We need to look at both sides of Net Overseas Migration. On arrivals, we must ensure we’re bringing in people with the right skills. On departures, we must ensure people leave when their temporary visas end unless there’s a genuine reason to stay. People shouldn’t be able to extend their stay for years by gaming the system.
Bill Woods
Let’s turn to the hate speech legislation. The Greens have now said they won’t support it, which creates a numbers problem for the government. Does that change things for you?
Senator Scarr
Our focus is on the national interest. This is critically important legislation. But the process has been incredibly disappointing. On Monday evening we were handed a 136‑page bill, plus 320 pages of explanatory material. We had less than 24 hours before the first public hearing. Nearly 500 pages overnight. We burned the midnight oil to ask questions not just for ourselves but for the Australian people. And many questions couldn’t be answered. For example, regarding the protest slogan “globalise the Intifada,” we asked whether the new offences would prohibit it. Officials couldn’t say. They said it would be up to the courts. There’s also a provision relating to hate preachers. It bans inciting hatred on racial or ethnic grounds but includes an exemption for quoting “religious texts.” We asked what counts as a religious text. Again, no answer. This is profound, especially given the response to Bondi, the rise in antisemitism, and concerns about extremist preachers. Hundreds of submissions have been lodged, many raising serious concerns, but people only had until Thursday afternoon. To make it harder, the government has bundled multiple topics, racial vilification, firearms regulation and more, into a single Omnibus Bill. They should be separate pieces of legislation. Forcing Parliament into an all‑or‑nothing vote is not good lawmaking.
Bill Woods
Let’s talk about the social media ban. After one month, 4.7 million accounts have been removed from platforms under the teen ban. Both sides supported it. Is this progress?
Senator Scarr
It’s too early to tell. Four million sounds high, but I’d also ask how many new accounts have been created. Young people are already looking for ways around the ban.
We need to look at safety data. The intent was to reduce online bullying and exposure to harmful material, issues that have caused devastating outcomes for young people. We also need to examine unintended consequences. Some young people use social media to connect when they struggle to do so in person.
Bill Woods
Critics say that regardless of the ban, big tech companies should be forced to restrict harmful content. Is that still worth pursuing?
Senator Scarr
Absolutely. When I first entered Parliament, a local family told me their son had gone online looking for guidance on taking his own life, and found it. That is horrifying. Platforms should not host harmful material. They have a legal and moral responsibility.
Bill Woods
And they have algorithms capable of targeting us with ads based on anything we search for, even when I bought shoes for my wife.
Senator Scarr
You’re a braver man than me, I wouldn’t buy shoes for my wife!
Bill Woods
She told me what she wanted, thankfully. But if platforms can target ads so precisely, surely, they can filter harmful content?
Senator Scarr
It’s also about radicalisation. ASIO and the AFP warn that young people can be drawn into extremist content through algorithms. They search one thing, then get directed down a rabbit hole of content from around the world. So yes, social media companies need to meet community expectations.
Bill Woods
We’ll keep watching it. But I know you’ve got a huge week ahead in Canberra. Thanks for your time tonight, back to homework for you!
Senator Scarr
I’m deep in submissions, mate. Thanks to all Australians who made them. And I’ll have that intro song stuck in my head now!
Bill Woods
Good on you, mate. Thanks for your time. Have a great weekend.
Senator Scarr
Thanks, Bill.
