Paul Scarr is the Shadow Immigration Minister, and he joins me on the line from Canberra, Senator Good Morning to you.
Senator Scarr
Good to be with you, Mark and your listeners.
Mark Levy
Well, let’s, let’s start with these ISIS brides. As you can appreciate, I got pretty fired up about it off the top of the show, if the government is aware of possible persons of interest in the cohort that is set to return in Australia. I think it’s a legitimate question to be posed. Why are we allowing them to waltz back into the country in the first place?
Senator Scarr
Well, I think it is a very legitimate question Mark. And let’s be frank, there’s a difference between a child who’s maybe an orphan and through no decision of their own has gone overseas, being taken overseas by their parents. And there were cases in that vein where the Coalition did respond. But it’s different if you’re talking about adults who have gone overseas, become affiliated with ISIS, a terrorist regime. And I talked to people Mark in Australia who came here on humanitarian visas, who were impacted by ISIS, right? This was a ruthless terrorist organization. We know that from the report this morning that there are people of interest, and it does raise the question as to how the government’s going to mobilize an appropriate security response in relation to this proposal.
Mark Levy
And Paul, the other thing that sort of plays in the back of my mind is the recent announcement from our top spy, Mike Burgess and the Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, who made clear that Iran, a terrorist regime, has been orchestrating and planning these terror attacks on our shores that have been made out to be anti semitic attacks. Yes, they’re anti semitic, but they’re also terror attacks. And what we don’t want terror on our shores. Yet, we’re allowing these ISIS brides to waltz on back into Australia.
Senator Scarr
Mark, we cannot let conflict overseas create division at home. We can’t let conflict overseas create division at home. So I think the government needs to carefully consider this approach, and I commend our security agencies, I think they do a great job, but it is deeply disturbing when we’re talking about people who went overseas as adults and affiliated themselves with ISIS and are now looking to come home to Australia.
Mark Levy
Well, one of your colleagues from the Nationals, Senator Matt Canavan, has been on with my colleague Ben Fordham this morning, and he’s made clear that he doesn’t believe we should be bringing these people back, because there’s no plan to assist these people before they hit our soil. Do you share those concerns?
Senator Scarr
I share the concerns. There needs to be security clearances with respect to these people and a security assessment made with respect to these people before they come back to our country. So I don’t know what the government’s proposing here Mark in terms of what checks and balances they have in place, but these are people who left our country and went overseas and affiliated themselves with a horrific terrorist organization, completely contrary to our Australian values. It couldn’t be more contrary to our Australian values. So I think the government needs to carefully assess this, because it’s quite disturbing the reports we’re hearing today.
Mark Levy
Absolutely, I wanted to touch on immigration while I’ve got you, Paul and I thank you for your time. I want to ask about your response to the protests we saw over the weekend. These Neo Nazis. I’ve decided not to name them because they want the notoriety. But many of the Australians at those marches had a valid point, didn’t they? I mean, we have a lot of people coming into the country, and there’s not much being done to make sure those numbers are sustainable.
Senator Scarr
I agree with your proposition Mark, that you shouldn’t name the Neo Nazis, let’s not give them any glory or any satisfaction in that regard. And there were extremists at the rallies, but there were also people of goodwill, and I’ve said this publicly, who have legitimate concerns about housing pressures, infrastructure pressures in Australia. So we need a migration intake that is sustainable over the long term. And what we saw Mark from the Albanese Labor Government in their first budget. And I want to place these figures on the record, because it’s really important. In their first budget, they estimated net overseas migration in 2022-23 would be 235,000 it was 528,000 in 2023-24 they estimated 235,000, it was 446,000 so those facts are all you need to know to realize that this is a government that is not managing immigration policy as it should be managed.
Mark Levy
Well, let me throw another number at you, right? These projections that we got at the moment, Paul would indicate that Australia’s population is projected to grow by 13.5 million people over the next 40 years, to 40.5 million. That’s equivalent to adding another Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane to Australia’s current population. Given the pressures that hard working Australians are already under, how can the government justify those projections and the fact that the government yesterday came out and said there won’t be any change for the next financial year?
Senator Scarr
Yeah, and I should be clear, the government came out yesterday with a figure of 185,000 for the permanent migration intake,. I the Coalition had been elected at the last election, we had proposed to take that figure down to 140 for the next two years. So there was a material difference in those figures if we’d been elected. But what we need is a sustainable migration policy which dovetails with housing and infrastructure and creation of jobs in this country and the provision of services. And we can’t have this whipsaw effect where the government predicts 235,000 in its budget, and we actually get 528,000 that’s completely unacceptable, and that’s one of the reasons for the great concern in the community at the moment.
Mark Levy
What we need is skilled workers. That’s what we need. Builders trades. I mean, we’ve got a housing crisis too, Pau. If we need the tradies, we need builders, we need brickies, all that sort of thing. Let them come in. But it seems to me, at the moment, we’re just letting each and every person in without actually working out who can actually help this country move forward. It’s just, let’s open the gates and let everyone in, but not actually come to the party and help us at the same time!
Senator Scarr
And Mark this is one of the issues in terms of how the government’s managing this policy. Because they released their program for this financial year two months after the year started. So I’ve been getting feedback from people who are migration agents that they’ve got clients have the skills you talk to, the skills we need, you know, the carpenters, the plumbers, the electricians, etc, to build the houses we need, but they’ve been delayed because the government hasn’t released its permanent migration intake. So the best and the brightest people will go elsewhere. They’ll go to Canada, they’ll go to New Zealand, they’ll go somewhere where the migration policy is better managed. So you’re absolutely right. We do need skills, and we need a targeted migration policy to make sure we get people with the skills Australia needs as part of that migration intake.
Mark Levy
Well, Paul, it’s certainly an issue that fires up our listeners to 2GB. And I have a feeling we’ll probably get an avalanche of feedback and correspondence off the back of our chat this morning. Thanks so much for making some time for us on what will no doubt be a busy day. Appreciate your time as always.
Senator Scarr
Good on you Mark.
