In Senate Estimates, Coalition MPs asked Tony Burke to explain his change in approach when it comes to migration planning, and his response was that there needs to be flexibility in the immigration system. But two years ago, Labor said it was moving to a multi year planning program, so they needed to make sure that we were keeping up infrastructure wise. But instead of a review and a plan, we’re getting nothing. It sounds like Tony Burke doesn’t want to do his job and create a set plan to manage migration. Instead, he just wants to keep the door open and hope for the best. The Shadow Migration Minister Paul Scarr is having his say on this this morning, he joins us on the line. Paul, Good Morning to you.
Senator Scarr
Good morning, Ben, and congratulations on your rescue efforts over the weekend.
Ben Fordham
Oh, well, you need to wait and hear the details, mate. It’s not as exciting as it sounds. It’s usually the case with some headlines as opposed to the detail and that’s certainly the case with Tony Burke. When we were told that there was going to be a set plan to manage migration. Now, he says, we just need to be flexible. What’s all that about?
Senator Scarr
Yeah, what is it all about, Ben? Absolutely. Well, you and your listeners would know, something as complicated as an immigration policy, something which has to be in our national interest, you need to plan and two years ago, the federal government, when it announced the need to build an extra 200,000 houses in Australia, it also announced it was going to move to multi year planning of immigration and then they just dropped it. There was no explanation. It had appeared in the budget. It had appeared in the Department of Home Affairs corporate plan. It was just dropped. We found that out in Estimates, and then yesterday, Tony Burke said he can’t engage in multi year planning. He can’t engage in planning over the long term, because he needs to be and this is his word, flexible, flexible. So there’s no long term plan, there’s no transparency, there’s no explanation.
Ben Fordham
Okay, when we’re dealing with demand and supply, you need a plan, don’t you? If you’re trying to work out how many houses you need, for example, and how many people are coming in requiring those houses, you can’t do that through guesswork.
Senator Scarr
Absolutely, it’s common sense, isn’t it? Especially when the federal government’s got to work with the state governments, it’s got to work with local governments. It’s got to work with industry in terms of skill shortages, you need a long term plan, and Tony Burke just doesn’t want to do the work and it raises so many serious questions, Ben. We know from the state of our housing market that we’re not meeting demand in terms of housing supply. How are you going to address that without long term planning?
Ben Fordham
Maybe Tony Burke thinks he doesn’t need a plan, because immigration levels are coming down based on the latest figures.
Senator Scarr
Well, based on the latest figures, immigration levels up to the year ending 31 March 2025 are still 100,000 above the 10 year average before the Covid 19 pandemic, which was 216,000, so they’re still too high, and again, we have this housing supply shortage. So the Minister needs to step up, he needs to provide leadership, he needs to engage in long term planning, and he needs to explain what’s happening to the Australian people.
Ben Fordham
Okay, so Labor brought in 315,000 migrants in the year to March. How many would you bring in per year if you were the Minister for Immigration?
Senator Scarr
Well, I think there’s a few benchmarks in that 216,000 figure in the 10 years up to before the Covid pandemic – that is one of those benchmarks. One of the long term assumptions used by Treasury is 235,000 but at the same time, we’ve got to consider housing supply, and that means we need to systematically work through each cohort of people getting visas to come into the country and see how we provide for housing. So the work needs to be done, the planning needs to be done, the engagement with stakeholders needs to be done.
Ben Fordham
So reading between the lines, you would bring it down to under 250,000 per year?
Senator Scarr
Well, I think that the research that’s been done would suggest, in terms of long term planning, a figure somewhere around that number is the best number in terms of GDP growth, in terms of our aging population. But we need to do the work. We need to do the planning in order to be able to be more definitive in relation to that and there are a lot of moving parts in relation to this, including our skill shortages in regional areas and where the people are going. So we need to make sure the right people with the right skills are going to the right places.
Ben Fordham
We are chatting to Senator Paul Scarr, the Shadow Minister for Immigration. I want to ask you about some of the movements over the weekend within the Coalition, because we know that Andrew Hastie is no longer on the front bench, nor is Jacinta Price, and now we find out that Barnaby Joyce doesn’t want to be part of the Coalition long term, he’s thinking about joining One Nation. What do you make of that news?
Senator Scarr
I really hope Ben, that Barnaby thinks very carefully about this. I’ve enjoyed campaigning with Barnaby as part of the Coalition since I’ve been a Senator in 2019. He’s part of the National Party family. It would be a huge step for him, at this stage, to leave that family, and I just hope he has time to reflect, time to consult with party members and all those people have such a high regard for him.
Ben Fordham
Why is the popularity of One Nation on the rise, while the popularity of the Coalition is plummeting?
Senator Scarr
Well, it’s a very difficult period for us at the moment, Ben. We’ve come out of the very bad election result. There’s obviously been issues that you’ve referred to that are having an impact in terms of our standing in the community, and we just need to focus on holding the government to account and coming up with a suite of policies to take to the next election.
Ben Fordham
Yeah, but you’ve got to hurry up. Sussan Ley’s got to hurry up and actually outline the policies on things like Migration and Net Zero.
Senator Scarr
Sussan’s giving a really important speech today in relation to our direction on Tax Policy, in relation to the explosion in government spending and the different philosophical approach Ben, between us and the Labor Party, and you’re right, we need to present that alternative for the Australian people.
Ben Fordham
Yeah, she keeps on considering for another few weeks or few months, she’s going to end up political roadkill. We appreciate your time. Thanks very much for joining us.
Senator Scarr
Thanks very much Ben.
Ben Fordham
Paul Scarr, the Shadow Minister for Immigration.
