We heard that the federal government has decided to maintain the permanent migration intake at 185,000 a year. This was following, well, a lot of talk in the lead up to the election about reducing migration numbers. Paul Scarr is The Shadow Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs, and joins us now. Paul, Good Morning.
Senator Scarr
Good to be with you and your listeners.
Stephen Cenatiempo
Paul, 185,000 is the figure the government’s sticking out. Where should it be?
Senator Scarr
Well, if the Coalition had been elected at the last election, it would have been at 140 and it would have been at 140 for this year, and it would have been at 140 for next year, before gradually being recalibrated up to 160 that was the Coalition’s policy, which we took to the last election. And we’re going to have to see what mess we inherit from the Labor Party as we develop our policy for the next election.
Stephen Cenatiempo
How big a difference is that 40,000 people a year going to make tho?
Stephen Cenatiempo
You talk about the skills shortage, though, and I put the same question to one of your Labor Senate colleagues not that long ago, is that we’ve got nearly a million people on some form of job seeker allowance at the moment, more than half of them have been long term unemployed, so for two years or more. Why do we never talk about and neither side of politics ever talks about upskilling these people to get these skills shortages filled.
Senator Scarr
Well, it would have been a difference of 45,000. That is a material difference. At the same time, you’ve got to balance the issue that we’ve got some chronic skill shortages in this country as well. So we’ve got to make sure that we at least have a migration intake which is focused at those skill shortages, meeting those skill shortages. And then you’ve got to deal with issues like partner visas, people who fall in love overseas and want to bring their partner home, etc. So we thought 140 was a pretty measured and considered figure that took into account what the situation is in terms of issues like housing.
Senator Scarr
I think that is an excellent point you make. I think we need to look at upskilling every single person in this country who isn’t gainfully employed, including people who’ve come to this country with certain skills, where those skills aren’t being utilized, or where those skills could be upgraded so they could actually contribute to the economy. So I think you make a really important point, and I think we have to look at mobilizing every single person in this country and making sure we utilize all their capacities and utilize all their skills. It is a debate we’ve got to have as to how we best address that, and one of the ways to address it is to make sure that people have come to this country as new Australians who do have skills from their country of origin, have an opportunity to have those skills recognized, to update those skills so they can contribute to the economy. So it’s a really, really important point.
Stephen Cenatiempo
The question is this, Paul, if the if the Coalition thinks that immigration numbers are too high, and anybody that looks at this in a sensible manner would agree with that. We saw hundreds of thousands of Australians march across the country on the weekend, and almost every single Coalition member of parliament condemn these marches.
Senator Scarr
There was a difference between the people of goodwill who marched on Sunday concerned about the issues that we’re talking about, and then there are the extremist elements who seek to fill a vacuum when we don’t have a reasonable discussion, a considered discussion without people raising legitimate concerns, being insulted and accused of various things. When we don’t have that discussion, then the more extreme elements of the community will fill that vacuum, and that’s why it’s so important we have the discussions we’re having today.
Stephen Cenatiempo
So what do you make of the recent YouGov poll says that even former Coalition voters have just turned off you now. I mean, we saw a lot of people marching that generally, you would think the Coalition could probably pick up as voters if they got their policy settings right. But the fact that you’re taking review after review after review to work out what it is you believe in and stand for, the electorates turned away from you.
Senator Scarr
I think our values are clear. The question is, using those values as the foundation to build a suite of policies to take to the next election. And there are some really important issues where we need to make sure that every single MP and Senator has their input, representing different communities around Australia, and that includes in relation to net zero policy. And that takes time. It takes time to make sure everyone has their input.
Stephen Cenatiempo
But hang on when it comes to net zero policy, or let’s talk energy policy more broadly, what is it that you don’t already know about energy policy that is taking you all this time to work out what you stand for?
Senator Scarr
Well, the question is, how do we actually develop a policy that has responsible emissions reduction but also addresses unsustainable electricity price increases, the issue with respect to stability of electricity grid, the issue with respect to our sovereign capacity in terms of manufacturing, agriculture, etc. So we have to come up with a policy that takes into account all the different factors that we can take to the next election, which we can get behind as a party room, and that is going to take time. [CUT OFF] We need some additional time to do that. I understand the frustration people have, but we need to take that time.
Stephen Cenatiempo
Paul, I appreciate your time this morning.
Senator Scarr
Okay, thanks, mate.
