We’re joined by Senator Paul Scarr, Liberal National Senator for Queensland and Shadow Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs for of course, Canberra Conversations. There is plenty to cover tonight, big issues that cut across politics, international relations and the cost of living at home. Senator Scarr is with us now for Canberra Conversations, Welcome, Senator
Senator Scarr
Good to be with you and your listeners as always, one of my favorite parts of the week.
Cheralyn Darcey
We missed you last week, so we made sure we’ve got you on tonight!
Senator Scarr
I knew there was something missing in my life last week.
Cheralyn Darcey
Did you? it was The Nightline! That’s what it was. It was the Nightline. No, we’ve got you, we’ve got you tonight. And just a reminder, you can always catch up on the Senator’s Podcast, either what’s on the Nightline over at 2sm.com.au, and also, he’s got his own podcast, Canberra Conversations. You can find it everywhere on all the major platforms. All right, Senator, let’s get into it. I need to know, and so does everybody: What’s your view on how Anthony Albanese has handled leadership on issues like the PNG security deal and the economy?
Senator Scarr
I think there are some fundamental issues which we’re seeing today. Your listeners all know the cost of living is a huge issue in this country, and whether or not it’s electricity prices, gas prices, rents, mortgage repayments, transportation costs, health insurance – Australians are really struggling to make ends meet, and that’s the fundamental issue we have in Australia at the moment and it’s not getting any better. The feedback I’m getting from everyone, from pensioners through to small businesses to larger businesses, everyone is struggling with costs in this country and I should say it is really impacting housing supply as well. The cost to build a new house, even if you’ve got land which has gone through all the zoning, you’ve gotten through the red tape and the green tape – cost is a major, major impact, and I think we want to see better leadership from this Government in relation to how they’re going to bring down those costs.
Cheralyn Darcey
What would the coalition be doing differently right now?
Senator Scarr
One of the major issues, I think, is government spending. So the government really has been spending as the proverbial drunken sailor since being first elected in 2022 and whenever the government is spending more and more money, and we see the percentage of government spending as a percentage of gross domestic product, which is one objective way – so this isn’t a politician speaking – this an objective way to measure it – it has gone up from 24% to 27% and it’s nearly at all time highs. You have so much money coming out of the government, it drives inflation up and we’ve seen inflation go up, and that feeds in the cost of living crisis. So I think we need responsible economic management, just as your listeners have to manage their own household budget, we need government to manage the national budget on behalf of all Australians, and that’s one of the ways to address inflation.
Cheralyn Darcey
Circling back to that PNG security deal, and you’ve spent your own time there. How do you feel things were handled there?
Senator Scarr
Well, the first point I’d make is that the relationship between Australia and Papua New Guinea is of crucial importance. PNG is our closest neighbor geographically, and it has a population greater than 10 million. So it is an incredibly important relationship for Australia. So I support the efforts of the government to enter into a security arrangement with the PNG government. However, one can’t help but be critical of the fact that they went up there to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the independence of Papua New Guinea, expected to sign the agreement, and it didn’t happen, and it didn’t happen because they hadn’t done the groundwork, and as someone who’s lived and worked in Papua New Guinea between 1999 and 2001, I care deeply about that country, the people, the relationship with Australia You’ve got to do the groundwork. You’ve got to do the groundwork and clearly there was a monumental failure and it just concerns me whether or not we’re going to be able to get back to the table and actually sign that security agreement, because I think it’s really important.
Cheralyn Darcey
Do you think we’ve lost hope on it?
Senator Scarr
Look, I want to be positive about it, but the issue with those things is, I think you get momentum and the significance of that milestone of the 50th anniversary of independence for Papua New Guinea. That was the perfect time. That was the perfect time to sign that security agreement. The Albanese Government has been in power since 2022, so they’ve had enough time to get their ducks in a row to manage to sign that security agreement, so that’s what concerns me.
Cheralyn Darcey
Along with these sort of missteps and the cost of living at the moment that we’re all feeling as you said, do you think Australians are losing faith in the Prime Minister’s leadership at the moment, Senator?
Senator Scarr
Look, I’m not sure that they’ve ever been truly inspired or have a huge amount of confidence in the in the Prime Minister at any time, to be frank. I think the Coalition, we’re going through a process at the moment, and looking at our own performance, including at the last federal elections, and whether or not we provided the options to the Australian people that were attractive enough to get their support. So I think there are issues in terms of how Australians perceive the leadership of the Prime Minister. The Constitutional Referendum we had in relation to the so-called ‘Voice’ was a monumental disaster, and the Prime Minister led that. So I think there are some serious issues there, and I think it’s important for the country that the Australian people, your listeners, have faith in their political leaders of whatever party at whatever level of government and that’s important. But when the Prime Minister goes out before he was first elected, and says electricity bills will come down by $275 for every household in Australia, on average and they, in fact, have gone up by $1,300, you can’t blame Australian people for being really disappointed with the outcomes, given cost of living, pressures they’re under.
Cheralyn Darcey
I’m hearing that all the time. This week, though, I’d say this is probably the biggest topic is Palestine being in the news so often. We all want a peaceful resolution there. It seems almost impossible. However, the Albanese Government has extended diplomatic recognition to Palestine. Now why does the Coalition oppose this move, Senator?
Senator Scarr
I want to first reinforce the point you made that all people of good heart, want to see peace in the Middle East. They want to see an ultimate solution where people can live side by side in peace, and we don’t see the awful vision we’ve seen of those Israeli hostages still stuck in tunnels under Gaza. We don’t want to see the images of women and children who’ve suffered due to the war occurring. We don’t want to see any of that. We want to see people living in peace and harmony. That’s the first point. So given that’s the ultimate goal, the query we have is, how can you recognise a Palestinian State when the United States, Israel’s biggest supporter aren’t at the table and aren’t discussing where the borders are going to be, aren’t discussing what security guarantees can be exchanged between them when the hostages haven’t been returned, when Hamas is still in control of Gaza. How can you actually recognize a state in those circumstances? From our perspective, the most obvious path, and this was what had previously been agreed by both the Liberal Party, the Coalition and the Labor Party, for many, many years, was there had to be a negotiated settlement process. So you needed both Israel and representatives of the Palestinian people, not terrorists, but representatives of the Palestinian people at the negotiating table, working through all those issues that need to be considered, including where the borders are going to be, including mutual respect for each other’s sovereignty and security, etc, and that’s the way you get a sustainable peace settlement. But we’re at a situation now where it’s occurring unilaterally, without the participation of the Israeli government and I just don’t see how that works.
Cheralyn Darcey
Some would argue that the recognition gives Palestinians some hope of statehood. How do you respond to that?
Senator Scarr
Well, look, I understand that argument, and from my perspective, there’s the symbolism, and symbolism can be really important in these situations and I understand the aspirations, and I understand a lot of Australians want to see peace in that area and want to see two states living in peace side by side, but you still come back to that issue of, how’s this working in practice? It doesn’t matter who the disputes are between. In terms of international disputes over borders, where two parties have been at war, or whatever, you need the parties to come together to make the resolution together. Otherwise it can’t work. It can’t work. It can’t be a long term solution and that’s our fundamental concern as the Coalition. We want to get to the end point. It’s a question of, well, should we have taken this step when you don’t have the other party, namely Israel, at the negotiating table, participating in those negotiations, and you’ve got Hamas still in control of Gaza, and Hamas can’t be part of any long term solution, obviously.
Cheralyn Darcey
The government’s also set a new 2035 Emissions Reduction Target. Why does the Coalition believe it’s economy-wrecking?
Senator Scarr
From our perspective, we believe in ensuring that we’ve got a reliable electricity grid, which is providing affordable power to the Australian people, and that means both households and businesses. At the same time, we also support responsible policies to bring down emissions and the use of the best technology available to do that. So from our perspective, we look at it through those two dimensions. When you look at what the government’s announced, the first point to note is they haven’t announced any cost analysis in terms of what the cost implication is going to be for Australian households. So how can you propose targets for 2035, propose to legislate those targets, when you haven’t actually had that honest discussion with the Australian people as to how much this is going to cost on their electricity bill. The analysis that has been released, assumes that the Government’s going to meet the emissions reduction targets that were actually set a number of years ago by 2030 and that is to bring emissions down by somewhere just a touch above 40%, compared to the 2005 levels and what we’re seeing at the moment is we’re not going to achieve that target. So, we’re putting in place a target for 2035 when it appears that we’re not going to achieve the 2030 target. So the whole assumption for what’s being proposed – it’s a false premise. It just doesn’t work. So, there’s all sorts of issues in relation to this, and this isn’t just a theoretical debate. This is going to have impact on your listeners and their electricity costs, and the electricity costs of the small businesses they go to, the electricity costs of big employers. It’s going to have an impact, and that’s why this debate, this issue, is so important.
Cheralyn Darcey
How would the Coalition tackle the emissions while keeping costs down?
Senator Scarr
We want to make sure that the plan that is implemented achieves those two goals. So in terms of the reliable grid, electricity grid, so the lights come on when we want the lights come on, the power comes on when they want the power to come on. The costs are competitive and affordable, and we bring emissions down in a responsible way. One of the areas we’re looking at, for example, is the use of gas. So we’ve got gas fields in New South Wales, the Narrabri gas fields – there’s been a major project there that would alleviate a lot of the cost pressures in relation to gas and would provide firming electricity power by the use of gas for when the sun’s not shining and the wind’s not blowing. So we’re certainly looking at, as we develop our policy at the role of gas, and that’s just one example, in terms of the suite of policies we’ll be looking at.
Cheralyn Darcey
So would the Coalition scrap Labor’s 2035 Target entirely?
Senator Scarr
Well, I think there’s a few points to note here. The first is, we’re going through our own policy development process to work out what we think the right policy parameters are and this is a complicated issue, and I think we’ve got a responsibility to actually do the work to make sure that when we release our policy it deals with those issues where we’ve been critical of the Labor policy. So that’s the first point. Second point is, we don’t believe in putting these targets in legislation the way that the Labor Party has, and we think there are dangers in doing that, because you give them force of law, so it doesn’t allow you to adjust when the market conditions change, when technology issues arise, when you’ve got to act in the national interest. So we think that approach is is also problematic.
Cheralyn Darcey
When can we expect to see that? When’s the completion date for that?
Senator Scarr
Well, it is being worked on and a policy committee was established with members from both Coalition parties from both the House of Reps and the Senate, representing all the regions of Australia and that’s really important and they’re working through that. Dan Tehan is running that process. He’s one of our most experienced Shadow Cabinet Ministers. So they’re working diligently on that. I know they’re working on it. I know they’re having discussions in relation to that, but I can’t give you a definitive deadline at the moment.
Cheralyn Darcey
That’s okay. We love the fact that you’re working on it, Senator, we look forward to hearing about it.
Senator Scarr
Thank you.
