Let’s have a little bit of a look back at what happened in the corridors of power, and joined shortly by Senator Paul Scarr, Shadow Minister for Immigration. We like to call it our little chat of Canberra Conversations, the government’s economic round table wrapped up. If you don’t know about that, where were you? Must have been living on another planet. Business leaders, unions and policy experts all got into it. And these key areas of reform, some are saying, just a “talk fest”. I like to be more positive than that, because if something can come out of those discussions, that has to be a good thing. The Government has flagged significant changes to the NDIS, leak of a number of parents, of course, and teachers and advocates of children with autism in the dark, they say, Well, Senator Paul Scarr joins me on the line. Good Morning, Mate!
Senator Scarr
G’day, Tim, great to be with you. One of my favorite times of the week!
Tim Webster
Terrific. I saw you on the telly. Was that yesterday or Saturday?
Senator Scarr
Oh, I think it was Saturday Morning, early shift!
Tim Webster
On The Today Show, yeah. Now big three days with the King Arthur round table and 29 hours of discussion, 327 contributions made. I like to be positive. Is there something positive going to come out of that, or was it just a talk fest?
Senator Scarr
Well, I like to be positive as well. And I think two positive things that were discussed, first to introduce a charging regime to make sure people who are driving electric vehicles and therefore aren’t paying the fuel excise are required to pay their fair share to maintain our roads. I think that’s a fair and reasonable reform, and I think most of your listeners would agree with that. We’ve got to see the detail, of course, and examine the detail. But that seems to me to be a sensible change. The second one I’d mention Tim is something which the Coalition took to the last election, and that was to freeze further changes to the National Construction Code.
Tim Webster
Absolutely.
Senator Scarr
This is the code which governs how the standards which we’ve got to build dwellings, houses, apartments. It has gone from 1500 pages to 3000 pages, 3000 pages. It is just ridiculous! And so to freeze that code, so a builder, when they quote on a job actually knows that the job they quoted on isn’t going to change through additions to this National Construction Code, I think it is really important, and it’s going to help housing affordability. So I think those are two positive changes, but one of the things I’m concerned about is Jim Chalmers has foreshadowed changes to our tax system. And I don’t think the way to grow our economy, to provide more opportunities to Australians is to increase taxes.
Tim Webster
No. But you and I both know that Jim Chalmers needs the money because he spends a lot, doesn’t he?
Senator Scarr
Exactly. And we’re in a situation now, Tim, where spending as a percentage of GDP of gross domestic product has increased from 24% to 27% so that means the share of government spending as a proportion of the economy is increasing. And also we’re looking in the very short future $1.2 trillion of federal government debt, and that’s before you even look at the states? I don’t think that’s fair to our children and grandchildren.
Tim Webster
No, it’s not. Look, somebody’s telling porky pies about the NDIS as well. Now, I don’t have a problem with the NDIS being reined in, and I’m sure most Australians don’t, but you know, Mark Butler said, well, the states were consulted about all of this. Now you’re getting the state saying, particularly the Premiers of Victoria and New South Wales, both Labor. Well, nobody asked us about that, so somebody’s telling fibs!
Senator Scarr
Tim, I would have thought, if you’re going to engage in a major reform process and we need to make the NDIS system sustainable for the benefit of those Australians who are currently in it, and future Australians who need to access it. I would have thought you would consult with the states before you make a public announcement. So this wasn’t a good start to the process!
Tim Webster
No, it wasn’t. And look, you know, I understand how a lot of parents are very concerned about that. And, you know, let’s just say, by the way, if you’re on the NDIS now, you’ll stay there. So we’re only talking about something’s that going to happen, this ‘Thriving Kids next year, and the year after that. And then I think the state’s problem, Paul, is the government’s saying, well, you know, some of this is going to come back on you. We want you to contribute as well. And they’d already taken away that foundational support. So this is going to require, a bit of faith around with everybody, isn’t it, to get this thing working properly?
Senator Scarr
Yeah, and I think there’s an obligation on all of us, and I consider it a moral obligation, Tim, on all of us in politics to do our best to get this right. I’ve been contacted over the weekend by families with children with chronic autism and other issues, and a lot of families out there are worried about it. They’re concerned about these changes. So, we need to see more detail, that detail needs to be based on the best possible medical evidence. And all of us have an obligation to make sure that some of our most vulnerable Australians, their voices are heard in relation to this issue!
Tim Webster
Yeah, as far as the round table’s concerned, again, you know, I like to be positive. And a lot of people are saying, well, will any of this get done? And I suppose one of the biggest concerns, Paul is there doesn’t seem to be any really definitive timeline for any of this stuff, does there?
Senator Scarr
Yeah, that that is a concern.
Tim Webster
The Construction Code, yes. Pause till 2009 and we’re saying NDIS changes next year and the year after. But you know, it all seems in the distant future to me.
Senator Scarr
And just to give you another example of that, we haven’t seen the detail with respect to how the government proposes to charge electric vehicle owners for their share of contribution for road use, right? We haven’t seen any of that detail. So you raise a really important question, and if you want the productivity round table to be productive, then you really need to have deadlines and keep government accountable to those deadlines.
Tim Webster
I’d say about Jim Chalmers. I don’t know whether you folks think so in Canberra, I think most of you probably do. I think he’s a future Prime Minister, and he’s very good with the pollie speak. He’s really very good at it.
Senator Scarr
Well, Tim, I think Jim sees himself as Prime Minister.
Tim Webster
I’m sure he does. But the tax reform thing, I think most Australians should be very concerned about this, because he’s dancing around the edges of it, and we all know what’s being considered. You know, unrealized capital gains tax on Super if you got money above 2 million or 3 million, whatever it might be, if you do a deal with the greens. That’s what Australians concerned about. And you know, people are saying, the people in the media are saying, oh, well, you know, they’ll be there for six years. I’m going to say boldly, if they bring in changes like that, they could, well just be there for three years. Because people will arc up about that, particularly Paul, you know, Mum and Dad investors who say, well, you know, Super is the way that I’m planning for my retirement. I might have one investment property. I’m being told, I’ve got to sell them. I’ve got three or four, I’ve got to sell them, and only have one. Now, how that’s going to help housing, I’ve got no idea. It all just seems to be really convoluted to me when he’s talking about tax reform, but won’t talk about it.
Senator Scarr
Yeah, exactly. And this issue of taxing unrealized capital gains, and you give the example of someone with an investment property in their super fund, is really dangerous. Tim, we’ve never had that principle in Australia’s taxation system. And you are going to have situations where because of capital gain on paper, there is nothing about profits on paper about people being forced to sell assets. And that just isn’t fair, and it’s also going to have a horrendous impact if it’s brought in on farming families who put their farming property into their self managed super fund, and they did that in good faith, Tim, in accordance with the rules. So you shouldn’t be when people are planning for their retirement. You shouldn’t be moving the goal posts on them.
Tim Webster
I’ll finish that conversation by saying this, and I’ve said it to my listeners many, many times. And if you speak to Paul Keating, he won’t beg the Labor Government, I don’t think. But we’ve gone a long, long, long way away from Paul Keating’s original intention with compulsory super, a long way away in what is now, what 32 years. And they’ve got to get back to Superannuation, so that people are sure of it. Set of rules and leave it alone. Because governments see this trillions of dollars pool of money, and they said, well, we got to get hold of that somehow! Set the rules and leave it is my view.
Senator Scarr
Exactly, because it’s not the government’s money. It’s people’s money, people saved that money, and we should always remember that!
Tim Webster
Good on you. Always good to talk to you, mate. Thank you. Thanks for your time.
